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Home > Forums > The Open Forum
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Really appreciate you bringing this front and center... apologies for taking time before responding,

Author: TyroneIrish (20552 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)
Posted at 3:37 pm on Feb 9, 2023
View All

but I wanted to read all the other responses, especially those from Baron and Mark, which I'll address with them separately, and of course I spent time doing a little extra research that addresses your concern as well as theirs...

One more thing...before going into your post, let me say that I read your comments and entire link...so, I'm hoping that the same consideration will be returned...deal?...let's hope so...

The first thing I did upon reading your linked study is make sure it's from a reputable source...did a little research and found just a few complaints regarding bias on the part of some editors, but nothing outrageous...I also, sought out the Cochrane Review's "Impact Factor", which is a measure of its 'value' to the medical community...and found an IF = 9.2....then I searched for the rating of all medical journals and found The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM)'s #2 among all journals with an IF = 91.2...so I went there in search of any studies regarding mask wearing, and found the attached link that deals with school system experiences in Massachusetts.

Now, wrt the Cochrane study, without getting into the weeds of Confidence Intervals, etc...the impression I got was that there was great "Uncertainty" regarding the RCTs themselves as well as the reported results...
>many studies conducted during non-epidemic influenza periods as opposed to COVID-19 conditions
>in many studies 'Harms' were rarely measured and poorly reported
>for N95 vs Surgical Masks, there was great uncertainty in the comparison

In short the word "Uncertainty" crops up all through the report...which doesn't give me much confidence in their findings, and frankly, IMO there is no clear statement that masks don't work...or they would have said so.

Now let's go to the NEJM study that I found...it is based on actual records of COVID infections among the thousands of students and staff in the State of Massachusetts' School Districts during 2021 and compares districts that stopped requiring 'Universal' mask wearing vs. those that continued the practice...here's what they found...
-------------------
A study by Cowger and colleagues, the results of which are now reported in the Journal,8 provides new evidence that the REMOVAL OF UNIVERSAL SCHOOL MASKING POLICIES IN MASSACHUSETTS WAS ASSOCIATED WITH AN INCREASED INCIDENCE OF COVID-19. The study used difference-in-differences methods, a rigorous form of causal inference for policies that are infeasible or unethical to assess in a randomized trial. During a 15-week period (March to June 2022), Covid-19 cases in school districts that had ended universal school masking policies (70 districts for most of the 15-week period) were compared with cases in school districts that sustained universal masking policies (2 districts for most of the 15-week period). The removal of universal school masking was associated with an additional 2882 Covid-19 cases among 46,530 staff (an estimated 81.7 cases per 1000 staff) and an additional 9168 Covid-19 cases among 294,084 students (an estimated 39.9 cases per 1000 students) during the 15 weeks. In school districts that had ended universal masking, approximately 40% of 7127 staff cases and 32% of 28,524 student cases were associated with the removal of universal masking policies. (emphasis mine)
------------------

No 'If, Ands or Buts' about it...clear evidence that Universal (i.e. mandatory) Masking in schools REDUCED the spread of COVID-19...published in the very well respected NEJM that accepts only 5% of submittals from the very best research teams...btw, the findings jibe very well with the earlier posting on this board of the "MIT Study" dealing with masks for schools and nursing homes.

Look for other posts/links from me in this thread...history shows that the odds are low for an end to this debate, but I'm feeling very good about my position.


Link: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2213556

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Replies to: "Really appreciate you bringing this front and center... apologies for taking time before responding,"

  • Hey Tyrone, as if on cue…even N95 masks were worthless. [LINK] - Iggle - 8:28am 2/9/23 (29) [View All]
    • Here's another study conducted by Stanford/Yale and other fine institutions, which I actually posted [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 3:46pm 2/9/23
      • Wow from 2021… you don’t follow the science anymore? [NT] - Protagonist - 10:02pm 2/9/23
    • Really appreciate you bringing this front and center... apologies for taking time before responding, [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 3:37pm 2/9/23
      • I'll take a stab at rebutting this - MarkHarman - 8:59pm 2/9/23
        • Take your opinion to the New England Journal of Medicine...Yale U....Stanford U...WHO...CDC, etc. - TyroneIrish - 9:59pm 2/9/23
          • Until you man up and read Dr. Risch's paper, we can't have that conversation [NT] - MarkHarman - 1:07pm 2/10/23
    • He hasn't weighed in on this. Maybe first time he'll admit he was wrong [NT] - MarkHarman - 1:47pm 2/9/23
      • Oh please. He’s not capable of admitting he’s wrong. He’s waiting for direction from the spinners. [NT] - BaronVonZemo - 3:29pm 2/9/23
    • How much money and resources were wasted on masks that turned out to be worthless? [NT] - iairishcheeks - 10:53am 2/9/23
      • How many fuckheads on this board claimed they were “following the science” while ignoring it? [NT] - BaronVonZemo - 11:32am 2/9/23
        • This is a failure of science. I don't fault anyone for believing science. - iairishcheeks - 11:35am 2/9/23
          • No it isn’t. It is substitution of politics. No data supporting masks was given,&when we pointed it - BaronVonZemo - 11:59am 2/9/23
            • Fair enough. [NT] - iairishcheeks - 3:59pm 2/9/23
      • Not to mention all the CO2 released by mass producing them. - iairishcheeks - 11:01am 2/9/23
        • And pollution - the sea is full of them. Liberals being liberal. [NT] [IMAGE] - BaronVonZemo - 11:33am 2/9/23
        • I wonder how many respirators are gathering dust in government warehouses? - Iggle - 11:12am 2/9/23
          • Everytime I see Joe, I think of that stupid mask hanging off one ear in his commercials. [NT] - iairishcheeks - 11:33am 2/9/23
    • Looks like I know more than the dinner guests. Now be aware of predictable responses & consider.... - BaronVonZemo - 9:45am 2/9/23
      • It's amazing, Baron, how you can be 'Ignoring' me, yet be so deeply involved and concerned about my - TyroneIrish - 4:35pm 2/9/23
      • Contrary to what Ty thinks, it's obvious you know this stuff very, very well - MarkHarman - 10:11am 2/9/23
        • Not impugning Baron's knowledge in his Specialty...just his spreading of false and misleading info [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 6:01pm 2/9/23
        • It's amazing how much cleaner the board is without seeing the linkster's posts. You should - TampaIrish - 10:26am 2/9/23
        • I agree re Fauci,HCQ had a niche - that’s why Trump received it (which is 1/2 reason it was banned- - BaronVonZemo - 10:24am 2/9/23
    • But the masks do inform us on ones voting choices. It also lets the idiot wearing the mask - TampaIrish - 9:26am 2/9/23
    • I posted this yesterday, maybe with repetition it will sink in. - iairishcheeks - 9:05am 2/9/23
      • It very clearly reveals that there was not evidence to proceed in the opposite direction with masks - BaronVonZemo - 9:52am 2/9/23
      • But there was that case where 2 hair stylists didn't spread* covid that time! - Iggle - 9:15am 2/9/23
        • Oh, about that... - MarkHarman - 10:14am 2/9/23
    • Nonsense! They are as invaluable as AIDS or Breast Cancer ribbons. [NT] - Curly1918 - 9:05am 2/9/23
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