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My responses to your points, in italics...

Author: TyroneIrish (20594 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)
Posted at 8:04 pm on Oct 18, 2024
View All

I'm not even against abortion, I'm in the freakonomics and safe, legal and rare camps. But your is going to convince absolutely no one, because it's absurd. Almost everyone supports exceptions such as rape, incest and the health of the mother, including Trump.

First off, it appears that the Freakonomics leaders, Levitt and Dubner, have had to apologize for, and revise some of their Abortion related claims, which many others consider to be inherently resistant to any consensus solution...so I'm not all sympathetic to that line of discussion. Furthermore, as I've posted previously, at least one study shows that millions of women...at one point in time..., have stated during their reproductive lives they've been victims of forced or coerced pregnancies...I don't consider those 'rare' occurrences...nor do virtually ALL women who venture out at night or even in the daytime...alone. Yet there are too many anti abortion zealots...and too many in government...who want Total Bans on abortions...for any reason...to the point that recent state laws have terrorized Doctors and Nurses with threats of imprisonment and lost licenses into holding back care until it is 99.999% likely that the woman in need is likely to die without that abortion...and they reject the notion that millions of women are indeed subjected to life threatening and altering pregnancies they never wanted, thus leaving all of them without any recourse...save a Back Alley abortion.

We've been through all this before...up until Roe v Wake was decided it was pure chaos throughout the country...therefore, the women of America, and the men who sympathize with their plight, are never going to rest until that Law in reinstated...wherever women reside in this country.



But what we really ought to focus on is preventing unwanted pregnancies. Birth control is highly available everywhere, and there are a multitude of options that are free and or low-cost, safe and effective.

I've posted my choice for reducing the number of abortions, which parallel yours...a) Contraceptives being readily available to both women and men, even those at the poorest levels of income/wealth...b) Sex and Sexuality Education for all ages that teaches respect for others; facts about Reproduction and Child Raising...then c) Increased Funding for programs that make it possible for pregnant women considering abortion to reconsider and carry to term. Unfortunately, there are religious zealots who don't believe in Contraception...the "Just Say No" contingent which is largely Evangelical and even Catholic (although hardly anyone practices that 'guidance')...also, don't forget the chart I posted recently regarding the effectiveness of each Contraceptive Method...hint: there are LOTS of failures...even among committed couples...and quite a few who just could not endure another pregnancy...(i.e. 'Abortion' enters the conversation...like it or not)

The federalistic approach of leaving it up to the states is the most proper in my opinion. If you live in Alabama and your birth control method of choice is abortion, you should probably move. States like Vermont, New York and California will always permit abortion for any reason,.at any stage of the pregnancy.

Leaving the abortion to individual states was what led to Roe v Wade (read Laurence Tribe's "Abortion, the Clash of Absolutes")...it was pure chaos in this country until that decision was made...in practical terms that theory denies women to right to live and work in any state they wish without fear of what might happen should they encounter an Un-Wanted pregnancy. Surely you are aware that many women work in all kinds of business ventures, some large, some small...and some that are perfect for their skills and in turn, the employers needs...BUT they may not be in a state that has legalized abortion...that's what I would call "Restraint of Trade" for Women...not fair to them...and "Sexist", since Men don't have that concern.

But here's what I find really strange about you and your ilk, you wouldn't dare tell Muslims that forcing their women to wear burqas or mutilating the genitals of girls is wrong, i.e their religion is wrong but you have no problem chiding Catholics for following their religious beliefs and teachings as it relates to abortion. And that you do this, while claiming to be a Catholic yourself, is particularly hypocritical.

Both the Obama and Biden administrations have consistently advocated...strongly...for Women's Rights, not just domestically, but internationally...you'd be hard pressed to find even a fraction of such support coming from the GOP...I challenge you to rebut that statement...(but hope that you can). Nonetheless, it's important to understand that Islam is not a Homogeneous and Centralized Religion...e.g. compare and contrast Jordan with Iran's treatment of women when it comes to their choice of 'Dress'...again, I have a reading suggestion for you...it's entitled "No God, But God" by Reza Aslan...it's pretty close to a 'Primer' on Islam...could also be marketed as "Islam For Dummies" ;-)...Having read the book carefully, I would not call their religion "Wrong", since sects within it are very much like our Christian tenets/teachings...maybe even better...to get a sense of what i'm talking about, also go to your library and pickup "Three Cups of Tea" by Greg Mortenson...would that all Christians and Catholics exhibited such an ethos as those Muslims.

As for myself, I'm not going to sit for a session on "Apologetics", especially with people who won't even enter a discussion centered on the only acknowledged PERSON in the Abortion debate...the WOMAN. As I keep repeating, I'm all-in on REDUCING the number of Abortions, everywhere...but not at the cost of Women's Rights and Justice. I'll also bring up the still existent 'Section #2309' of our Catholic Catechism, which deals with "Just Wars"...i.e. the sanctioned Killing of others in order to preserve their Freedom to live their lives as they see fit and not endure the repression of an outside force/government...the term used for arriving at a "Just War" decision involves a critical thinking process called "Prudential Judgement", which is stated at the end of that Catechism Section. I mention this, because it is a very hard decision to come to, and it parallels the equally difficult decision by women when it comes to totally Un-Wanted Pregnancies........One more thing......you've heard me mention Pope Francis' comment on the "Personhood" of a fetus...he hasn't explained why he said that, but he certainly did not choose to say that Personhood begins at Conception...he could easily have done so and stop all discussion on the matter...but he did not. I'll venture to say that he recognizes the very real need for Justice toward women with Un-Wanted pregnancies...and the lack, after 2,000 years, of any clear theology for circumstances like un-embedded fertilized eggs in the uterus...miscarriages...and still births..."Limbo" was an attempt, but that evaporated with nothing to follow...i.e. no grounding for "Personhood" of a fetus.


Here's hoping you find my responses helpful...let me know.


Replies to: "My responses to your points, in italics..."

  • Faux News has Trump on to tell more stories. Yet slam Kamala for being strong and direct - Quest4twelve - 8:46am 10/18/24 (50) [View All]
    • He slammed her for being strong and direct?? - NedoftheHill - 12:15pm 10/18/24
    • This is what strong looks like. [IMAGE] - BaronVonZemo - 9:37am 10/18/24
      • You're just the voter he wants - Death - 3:23pm 10/18/24
      • Yes he managed to power through a slight scrape to the ear [NT] - Chris94 - 12:35pm 10/18/24
        • I take it you have never been shot at. - Hensou - 4:18pm 10/18/24
        • Winged by a rifle shot a centimeter from his head because he turned. More shots ringing out. Tough. - BaronVonZemo - 1:51pm 10/18/24
          • Lies - Death - 3:00pm 10/18/24
          • Noone is tough when being shot at. You're in a cult. We know how djt would react - - jimbasil - 2:00pm 10/18/24
            • How would you know this? [NT] - Hensou - 4:19pm 10/18/24
            • Wow! You think the Trump assassination attempt was staged?!!! TTTTTTDDDDDSSSS!!!!!! - BaronVonZemo - 3:32pm 10/18/24
              • Is that what my post says or are you just lying again? Oh, you're just lying again! [NT] - jimbasil - 4:03pm 10/18/24
              • You never tire of embarrassing yourself - Death - 3:36pm 10/18/24
                • Trump would be strong &brave enough to address me directly, rather than with an alt account LFranken - BaronVonZemo - 3:41pm 10/18/24
                  • I'm an original member you idiot - Death - 3:48pm 10/18/24
                    • Do you think the Trump assassination shooting was faked? [NT] - BaronVonZemo - 3:59pm 10/18/24
                      • You reek of desperation [NT] - Death - 4:06pm 10/18/24
                        • I suppose I do owe you an apology for calling to Frank - that is a bad insult. Now, will you answer? - BaronVonZemo - 4:16pm 10/18/24
                          • Did they tell you to ask this at the cult meetings? - Death - 4:27pm 10/18/24
                            • No answer….tells us what we need to know. YOU think the assassination was a hoax. Lol. [NT] - BaronVonZemo - 7:12pm 10/18/24
                      • Did trump lose the 2020 election? [NT] - jimbasil - 4:04pm 10/18/24
                        • Yes. Do you think the Trump assassination attempt was faked? Do you think he was shot? [NT] - BaronVonZemo - 4:15pm 10/18/24
                          • Someone did try to assassinate him and he was injured. We have to - jimbasil - 4:23pm 10/18/24
                            • Thank goodness. Then why did you say, "we know how DJT "would" react" (to being shot at)? - BaronVonZemo - 4:50pm 10/18/24
                              • Capt’n bone-spurs. That’s how he would react. Nothing brave about what happened to him. - jimbasil - 5:18pm 10/18/24
                                • So, you don’t believe the assassination was faked, but you believe he is the anti Christ. Worse. [NT] - BaronVonZemo - 7:15pm 10/18/24
                                  • Oh, give it a rest. You're on here promoting a convicted criminal as a hero. He stole from charities - jimbasil - 2:21am 10/19/24
        • Trying to imagine the endless histrionics if someone took a shot at Kamala. [NT] - iairishcheeks - 1:18pm 10/18/24
      • Moronic! [NT] - jimbasil - 11:02am 10/18/24
    • Strong people don’t have people cutting off their interview. to protect them…. - BaronVonZemo - 9:09am 10/18/24
      • We get Baron...you'd kill for Trump. [NT] - Quest4twelve - 9:17am 10/18/24
        • Please define “We”. [NT] - Hensou - 9:56am 10/18/24
        • All life is precious, from conception until natural death. [NT] - BaronVonZemo - 9:21am 10/18/24
          • Unfortunately, not for innocent women in desperate need of an abortion to save their lives, as we've - TyroneIrish - 11:34am 10/18/24
            • OMG! Innocent women in desperate need of an abortion! - iairishcheeks - 1:25pm 10/18/24
              • "Abortion Bans Have Delayed Emergency Medical Care. In Georgia, Experts Say This Mother’s Death Was [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 1:42pm 10/18/24
                • I'd like it if you cared more for fentanyl deaths, the childhood obesity epidemic and inflation. [NT] - iairishcheeks - 1:49pm 10/18/24
                  • LOL…way to stay on topic… [NT] - TyroneIrish - 2:36pm 10/18/24
                    • Human trafficking, suicide and shark attacks. - iairishcheeks - 3:15pm 10/18/24
                      • My responses to your points, in italics... - TyroneIrish - 8:04pm 10/18/24
            • This is the biggest load of shit [NT] - wrdomerson - 12:36pm 10/18/24
              • Upwards of 80-90% of Americans disagree with you...I'm just bringing their voices to you. [NT] - TyroneIrish - 1:01pm 10/18/24
    • Why didn’t he get that type of interview? They are fair and balanced, right? - Frank L - 9:08am 10/18/24
    • You just did, Direct she was not. Filibustered the whole time. Said "Trump" 21 times in a 20 min. - irishsmashmouth - 8:52am 10/18/24
      • I think it's funny people all of sudden realized politicians answer the question they want not the - Quest4twelve - 9:16am 10/18/24
        • This is just hilarious. [NT] - BaronVonZemo - 9:55am 10/18/24
        • Fweedom beat insanity that round. Now Brett is sayin he mistakenly played - Frank L - 9:37am 10/18/24
      • If it was 30 minutes she should have said it 31. He’s her opponent. - Frank L - 9:07am 10/18/24
        • Trump bad is not a winning strategy, but you carry on. [NT] - irishsmashmouth - 9:19am 10/18/24
          • Not if combined with why I will be better. [NT] - Frank L - 1:13pm 10/18/24
          • 16 years of biased, favorable treatment & their candidate is finally asked a hard Q & can’t respond - BaronVonZemo - 9:32am 10/18/24
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