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Pope Francis is on record saying that the issue of Fetal Personhood is debated...and here's what a

Author: TyroneIrish (21560 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)
Posted at 4:09 pm on Sep 4, 2025
View All

dissenter had to say about that...(from a "Where Peter is" columnist...

--------------------
Note however, that both the encyclical and the instruction call for the child in the womb “to be respected” as a person from the moment of conception, without definitively teaching that the embryo is a person. Donum Vitae mentions the personhood debate later in the section, stating, “This Congregation is aware of the current debates concerning the beginning of human life, concerning the individuality of the human being and concerning the identity of the human person.” Donum Vitae then quotes from the 1974 CDF document and adds the conclusion, “The Magisterium has not expressly committed itself to an affirmation of a philosophical nature, but it constantly reaffirms the moral condemnation of any kind of procured abortion. This teaching has not been changed and is unchangeable.”

In 2008, this point was again reiterated by the CDF, then led by Cardinal William Levada under Pope Benedict XVI. In the document Dignitas Personae, the Congregation stated, “If Donum vitae, in order to avoid a statement of an explicitly philosophical nature, did not define the embryo as a person, it nonetheless did indicate that there is an intrinsic connection between the ontological dimension and the specific value of every human life” (5).

What does all of this mean? Well, for one thing, it is clear that the Magisterium has acknowledged on multiple occasions that there is a debate about personhood. It is also clear that the Church has not always considered the life of a human person to begin at conception, nor has the Church definitively taught this. That said, the Church has always regarded abortion to be evil from the moment of conception. More recently, the Church has pushed back against the idea that “delayed personhood” is relevant to its position on the sanctity of human life from the moment of conception. It has taught instead that life, from the moment of conception should be treated and respected as a human person. And in this, Pope Francis has always been in line with Catholic Tradition.

--------------------

So, why hasn't the RCC "Definitively" taught that Personhood begins at Conception?...Well here are a few thoughts...
>The majority (estimates of 60+%) of 'Conceptions' never reach birth...irrespective of the abortion issue. There are cases where the embryo never implants at all...and others where 'Miscarriages' occur...what is the RCC to do about that? You probably remember the therm "Limbo" from back in your childhood...that did not last very long.
>There are no RCC rites or record keepings of miscarriages or failures to implant...implying a lack of "Personhood" recognition.

And here's my take...just as the RCC Catechism sanctions the killing of persons in "Just Wars", after employing rigorous "Prudential Judgement" (that term is actually in the Catechism for that topic (Par. 2309 I believe)...similar means of 'Justice' needs to be afforded to former Female Babies, who are now old enough to reproduce, but are either Forced or Coerced into pregnancies they NEVER wanted. In my mind, Prudential Judgement allows such victims the option of continuing the pregnancy, or halting it.

So, I'll ask you, since no one else has answered the question..."Just because a Woman CAN reproduce...MUST she under ANY and ALL conditions, including Rape and Coercion?"...Another simple question for you...Yes, or No?


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Replies to: "Pope Francis is on record saying that the issue of Fetal Personhood is debated...and here's what a"

  • I believe the scientists. Authoritarian regimes lie. Stop being marks. [NT] [LINK] - conorlarkin - 7:40am 9/3/25 (67) [View All]
    • Aim high Florida! Neighbors are expendable. [NT] [LINK] - conorlarkin - 2:38pm 9/3/25
      • They have a dipshit anti-vax surgeon general - Chris94 - 3:24pm 9/3/25
        • The craziness that the right has been able to mainstream into - Frank L - 2:13pm 9/4/25
    • 96% of biologists believe that Life begins at conception. You seem to ignore those scientists. [NT] - Hensou - 11:51am 9/3/25
      • You mean, that would be the start of development into a Person...let's continue this discussion in - TyroneIrish - 8:39pm 9/3/25
        • Bullshit. Read what it says. Not what you want it to say. [NT] - Hensou - 7:32am 9/4/25
          • Pope Francis is on record saying that the issue of Fetal Personhood is debated...and here's what a - TyroneIrish - 4:09pm 9/4/25
      • That surely is an impressive number you made up. - Chris94 - 12:02pm 9/3/25
        • Not made up. [LINK] - Hensou - 12:07pm 9/3/25
    • Do you think sex is geneticly determined? [NT] - NedoftheHill - 11:30am 9/3/25
      • Do you agree DJT is a criminal? [NT] - jimbasil - 12:14pm 9/3/25
    • Just look at Dr. Roy Spencer's Satellite Global Temperature data...over the last 12 yrs it's been [IMAGE] - TyroneIrish - 10:09am 9/3/25
      • You guys seem so convinced, and yet you pursue completely useless policies. - Iggle - 11:23am 9/3/25
        • Exactly what weird and 'useless' policies are you imagining? [NT] - TyroneIrish - 5:39pm 9/3/25
          • Offshore wind, onshore wind, solar subsidies, subsidies for rich people to buy Rivians - Iggle - 8:03pm 9/3/25
            • Let me start with Nuclear...earlier I posted a link that demonstrates the Dems commitment to the new - TyroneIrish - 11:45pm 9/3/25
        • I would add "and inconsistent" after useless. E.g., pro-electric car, but anti-nuclear. [NT] - LanceManion - 11:25am 9/3/25
          • "Biden-Harris Administration Announces New Steps to Bolster Domestic Nuclear Industry and [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 5:58pm 9/3/25
      • 1. It's immaterial. 2. It's a function of increased sea bed and surface volcanic activity. [NT] - LanceManion - 11:08am 9/3/25
        • I'd like to see your sources...I've reviewed several papers on Ocean and Boreal Forest CO2 "Sinks" - TyroneIrish - 6:14pm 9/3/25
    • Conor, they get much better info from the internet and podcasts - Chris94 - 9:54am 9/3/25
      • The rebuttal: COVID-19. Defense rests. [NT] - LanceManion - 11:09am 9/3/25
        • You mean the pandemic that science and vaccines stopped in its tracks? Gotcha. [NT] - Chris94 - 11:22am 9/3/25
          • You misspelled "nasty cold" and "DNA-altering immuno-suppressant". [NT] - LanceManion - 11:24am 9/3/25
            • The nasty cold that killed 1.2 million Americans. - Chris94 - 11:32am 9/3/25
              • The unnecessary lockdowns that mentally crippled countless kids. Pick your poison. [NT] - LanceManion - 11:38am 9/3/25
                • We learned. It also killed 1.2 million people. And the kids will bounce back. - Chris94 - 11:40am 9/3/25
                  • So ... 0.33% of the population? Sounds like a bad case of the flu to me. How many did the jab kill? [NT] - LanceManion - 11:43am 9/3/25
                    • 1.2 million Americans dying was a big deal… - Domer From Hell - 2:29pm 9/3/25
                      • Fortunately there were no incentives like funding that resulted in over-reported COVID deaths. [NT] - LanceManion - 4:34pm 9/3/25
                        • Your distain for reasoned information keeps causing you to make a fool of yourself... [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 12:29pm 9/4/25
                        • Covid has a knack for exasperating existing illnesses… - Domer From Hell - 5:32pm 9/3/25
                    • Almost none. Good try. [NT] - Chris94 - 11:44am 9/3/25
                      • Allow me to pull a Ty on you. For a "science" guy, you seem willfully ignorant on this. [LINK] - LanceManion - 11:58am 9/3/25
                        • You have a penchant for shooting yourself in the foot...Myocarditis is much more likely to occur [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 12:44pm 9/4/25
                        • It was harsh, but true… - Domer From Hell - 2:33pm 9/3/25
                        • Ask Killshot about it. - Chris94 - 11:59am 9/3/25
                          • You have been a little dark lately. You need a whiskey - next time we’re in SB, on me. [NT] - LanceManion - 12:05pm 9/3/25
                            • What type of whiskey does he drink? [NT] - Hensou - 1:21pm 9/3/25
                          • This post is despicable. You have zero class. [NT] - Hensou - 12:04pm 9/3/25
                            • This was meant for you… [NT] [LINK] - Domer From Hell - 3:03pm 9/3/25
                              • Killshot's life was more than a punchline. [NT] - Hensou - 3:08pm 9/3/25
                                • Of course not… - Domer From Hell - 3:56pm 9/3/25
                                • Wasn't a joke. [NT] - Chris94 - 3:25pm 9/3/25
                                  • Right. You brought it up out compassion for him. - Hensou - 3:32pm 9/3/25
                                    • Ridiculous assertion. [NT] - Domer From Hell - 4:00pm 9/3/25
                                      • Comically True. [NT] - Hensou - 4:47pm 9/3/25
                                    • He was an example, not a joke. [NT] - Chris94 - 3:33pm 9/3/25
                                      • Pick another example. [NT] - Hensou - 4:40pm 9/3/25
                      • False. [NT] [LINK] - Hensou - 11:54am 9/3/25
    • You've lived through 50 years of failed predictions. [LINK] - iairishcheeks - 9:14am 9/3/25
      • I remember the olden days of global cooling. - PaND - 9:36am 9/3/25
        • Who can forget: 1973 is peak oil. Live long enough and you realize it's the same recycled narratives [NT] - LanceManion - 11:06am 9/3/25
    • Climate change explained. No worry - you have around 11,000 years before you turn into a popsicle [NT] [LINK] - LanceManion - 8:01am 9/3/25
      • BP's estimate for years of worldwide proven oil reserves at current consumption rates is less than [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 10:24am 9/3/25
        • What a relief!!! 5 years ago you said it was 47!!! [NT] [LINK] - jakers - 8:09pm 9/3/25
          • Your linked post was from 5 months ago...not much has changed...the entire world is facing this - TyroneIrish - 11:58pm 9/3/25
            • That's an even better trend. So glad we have you confirming the growth in supply. [NT] - jakers - 7:33am 9/4/25
              • The O&G Industry itself acknowledged that Fracking production is on the decline...I've posted links - TyroneIrish - 12:47pm 9/4/25
                • Fortunately, you've gone from 5 to over 50. Great trend, thanks! [NT] - jakers - 2:59pm 9/4/25
                  • LOL...you have memory and focus issues to deal with, but I'm here to help...the "50" number is BP's - TyroneIrish - 4:17pm 9/4/25
        • That's what they said when I was 5 in 1976. [NT] - LanceManion - 11:02am 9/3/25
          • If you look at the EIA chart for years of Proven Oil Reserves remaining in the U.S. over time, [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 6:40pm 9/3/25
      • Obama talked about the imminent danger of rising seas…& then promptly put $30 million in beachfront - TakethetrainKnute - 9:28am 9/3/25
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