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Home > Forums > The Open Forum
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Don't know if these are what Trump is getting at, but here is my experience.

Author: NedoftheHill (45701 Posts - Joined: Jun 29, 2011)
Posted at 5:37 pm on Dec 16, 2018
View All

Example: China raises taxes to higher levels, then allows companies to lower the taxes down to the original lower rates by transferring IP and technology to China corporations from elsewhere. They provide overwhelming incentives in this way, basically forcing the transfer of ownership of IP from US companies to China companies...which make it totally under control of China. When your subsidiary, to which you transferred patents, is nationalized, what can you do?

Patents have to be transferred, but in order to get the tax benefits, the patents have to cover a technology which you use in China. I can't just transfer a patent to get the tax benefit...I have to show the tax authorities how the patent is used on an actual manufacturing line in China. It is not enough to sell a technology product there; you have to make it there...which trains your competitors, given the speed of movement of labor there.

ANd, that secret mixture the company has?...you can try to do half in the US, and half in China, but at least some of it has to go to China, where you lose control of your trade secrets. Some have suggested to me that if you have good technology, it is safe to say that more than one of your IT guys gets two paychecks, one from you, and one from the PRC.

And, when employees disappear with your trade secrets in the old fashioned way (without government enabled espionage), what do you do? Litigation is always a 3 party process. Your patent being infringed by a China competitor?...sue them, and you will discover that there are 3 parties in the courtroom, not two: you, the infringer, and the PRC government. Even if you have a 100% rock solid case, if that case goes against the long term interests of the PRC, you will lose. A factor is whether it is in the interests of the PRC to allow you to recover damages, or to allow their local company to continue infringing. There are crazy decisions in China courts...decisions that totally disregard IP law. Yes, there have been some prominent wins by Western companies against PRC corporations, but I am convinced that this is on purpose, for the media splash...just to give the West a case or two to talk about so that people can credibly (apparently) argue that things are changing, and the PRC protects the interests of Western companies.

And, by the way, law firms have government agents in their offices...there is no privileged conversation under China law. Have an IP problem? The files of every law firm are open to the PRC government as a routine matter, no warrent or official investigation required...mere nosiness can be used to justify opening up your files. Government agents can literally sit in on internal meetings at the law firm after you leave.


This message has been edited 7 time(s).

Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.

Replies to: "Don't know if these are what Trump is getting at, but here is my experience."

  • If sustained, can we win the trade war with China? - iairishcheeks - 12:59pm 12/16/18 (49) [View All]
    • How do you define “win”? If you mean get some IP concessions, maybe. If you mean substantial change - Frank L - 10:17am 12/17/18
      • I asked the audience to define "win" as a part of their answer... [NT] - iairishcheeks - 12:19pm 12/17/18
        • Whelp, I did answer it then. [NT] - Frank L - 12:42pm 12/17/18
          • Something to do with North Korea? [NT] - iairishcheeks - 12:49pm 12/17/18
            • The results of both situations may well end up - Frank L - 1:32pm 12/17/18
    • Who are "we?" Silicon Valley does not consider itself "American" but rather global. - Curly1918 - 9:30am 12/17/18
    • We have been in a trade war for them for twenty years, and lost badly - Hank Scorpio - 10:59pm 12/16/18
    • In case you are wondering why I haven't answered, it is because I have no idea what the answer is. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 10:19pm 12/16/18
    • No one wins trade wars - Chris94 - 3:56pm 12/16/18
      • Would you say noone wins regular wars because there are costs? [NT] - NedoftheHill - 8:06pm 12/16/18
        • Trade wars are not regular wars. [NT] - Chris94 - 2:43am 12/17/18
          • Nice dodge. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 11:01pm 12/17/18
        • Nope. Up through WWII there were winners and losers [NT] - CC72 - 11:40pm 12/16/18
      • im generally for full fair and open trade, but china’s theft of US IP must be addressed. [NT] - WestCoastIrishFan - 4:02pm 12/16/18
        • Explain how they are stealing US IP, and how you would stop it. [NT] - LehighND - 5:03pm 12/16/18
          • Do you really need this explained to you? [NT] - Hank Scorpio - 10:57pm 12/16/18
            • You are useless. [NT] - LehighND - 12:42pm 12/17/18
          • Don't know if these are what Trump is getting at, but here is my experience. - NedoftheHill - 5:37pm 12/16/18
            • Good stuff. Some replies. - LehighND - 1:22pm 12/17/18
              • Follow up. - NedoftheHill - 8:38pm 12/17/18
                • Thanks. That's good stuff. - LehighND - 2:23pm 12/18/18
                • Trump already scuttled a trans Asia trade deal. Leaving China the winner. [NT] - Frank L - 9:58pm 12/17/18
                  • I think he's shown a willingness to revisit trade deals and make them better. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 11:02pm 12/17/18
                    • He’s shown more ability to fuck up those deals. Just stupid to pull out of that Pacific deal. [NT] - Frank L - 11:08pm 12/17/18
                      • Outline why that was bad? Do you think NAFTA2 is also bad? [NT] - NedoftheHill - 12:55am 12/18/18
                        • Bad, because it would have provided a trading bloc counterpart to China in Asia with us at the head - Frank L - 10:05am 12/18/18
            • can’t go on better than that. i also know from personal experience at a former - WestCoastIrishFan - 8:22pm 12/16/18
              • Yes, their courts generally ignore decisions of courts outside of China. - NedoftheHill - 9:54pm 12/16/18
    • The Chinese are a closed society and right now do not create anything - Curly1918 - 3:36pm 12/16/18
      • Where in the world did you come up with such a bizarre notion? [NT] - LehighND - 5:02pm 12/16/18
        • Creativity only thrives in an environment of an open exchange of information - Curly1918 - 9:27am 12/17/18
      • They actually create lots of things. [NT] - Chris94 - 3:56pm 12/16/18
        • I opened this post expecting to see a list of recent Chinese creations [NT] - Curly1918 - 9:21am 12/17/18
        • Yes, but his point still has merit. - NedoftheHill - 10:17pm 12/16/18
    • Unfortunately, no - CC72 - 3:36pm 12/16/18
    • It seems so, but I've asked in the past for specifics of what people consider victory. - LehighND - 1:57pm 12/16/18
      • I don't know what needs to be done, but I know Dems & GOP want the status quo, which isn't working. - NedoftheHill - 10:25pm 12/16/18
        • I think any reasonable person would agree with that. - LehighND - 8:07pm 12/17/18
        • What you regularly fail to take in account is that the “change” may even be worse. Czarist Russia - Frank L - 4:28pm 12/17/18
          • I do take that into account, but I think GOP & Dem policies are taking us to worse places already. - NedoftheHill - 8:46pm 12/17/18
            • Those policies have also created some of the greatest peacetime prosperity for the West. - Frank L - 9:53pm 12/17/18
              • And now squandering that. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 11:03pm 12/17/18
                • So what’s he replacing it with that’s better? Outline the policy and why it’s better. [NT] - Frank L - 11:08pm 12/17/18
                  • You haven't been following him? How about correcting trade imbalances and repealing regulations. - NedoftheHill - 12:37am 12/18/18
                    • At what cost correcting trade imbalances, to what demonstrable benefit? - Frank L - 8:54am 12/18/18
                      • "Repealing regulation is a standard R message"...that the R's never make good on. - NedoftheHill - 9:57am 12/18/18
                        • The cost is going to be a slowdown of the economy. How big is the question. - Frank L - 10:14am 12/18/18
                          • Bubble is bursting anyway. Looking pretty grim right now. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 5:06pm 12/18/18
      • disagree. adherence to WTO courts would be a win. additionally, - WestCoastIrishFan - 10:19pm 12/16/18

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