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Home > Forums > The Open Forum
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Follow up.

Author: NedoftheHill (44684 Posts - Joined: Jun 29, 2011)
Posted at 8:38 pm on Dec 17, 2018
View All

China patents (and China utility models count for 1/6 of a patent).

Licensing doesn't help. It used to be that you could transfer granted patents. You can still do that, but it is now discounted if the patent is transferred instead of being filed in the name of the local company in the first place. Anyone who wishes to play the game in China needs to file in the name of a local entity. (Don't do a joint venture over there...but that is another issue.) In other words, it is usually best to assign the rights to the application before it is filed. As far as I can tell, the PRC tax authorities treat that as if the patent were invented in China. (By the way, the China tax authorities change the rules almost yearly, so what I say now may be obsolete in the next go-round.

"If you have no technology (you make lollipops or toothbrushes), do you pay the higher rate anyway because you have no IP to transfer?" Yes, but you can always file 6 utility models (which are not examined for novelty) on each product line you have. Lollipops and toothbrushes can be patented as well!

"Also, is the requirement of showing use merely a variant of our "Best Mode" requirement? Isn't the quid pro quo of patents to disclose how the invention is made or used?" No. They don't care about best mode. They care that their people have high tech jobs. They don't want a company to transfer a patent merely to enforce that patent against another company, thereby shutting down jobs in China. They want the patent to be practiced...their primary focus is jobs. So, you get the tax benefit if you are employing people with the patented concept.

I agree that much of the problem is difficult to address directly as part of a trade deal. However, I think even partial concessions would progress, and could be called a victory.

In my opinion, this is a golden opportunity for countries like Vietnam. Trump could really drive change in China if he and Shinzo Abe flew to Vietnam (and maybe a few others) and announced a major 3-way trade deal. China would have to worry about that...and they might grant some major concessions. Vietnam has a lot of potential, I think. But, as we've seen with India, it is always hard to predict when potential will become actual. The one thing China has that India does not, is a reliable power grid. Vietnam and other countries like them would do well to invest heavily in their infrastructure...I'm talking major investment. Companies are looking for an alternative to China, but the options are limited, as China has cheap labor and good infrastructure.


This message has been edited 2 time(s).

Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.

Replies to: "Follow up."

  • If sustained, can we win the trade war with China? - iairishcheeks - 12:59pm 12/16/18 (49) [View All]
    • How do you define “win”? If you mean get some IP concessions, maybe. If you mean substantial change - Frank L - 10:17am 12/17/18
      • I asked the audience to define "win" as a part of their answer... [NT] - iairishcheeks - 12:19pm 12/17/18
        • Whelp, I did answer it then. [NT] - Frank L - 12:42pm 12/17/18
          • Something to do with North Korea? [NT] - iairishcheeks - 12:49pm 12/17/18
            • The results of both situations may well end up - Frank L - 1:32pm 12/17/18
    • Who are "we?" Silicon Valley does not consider itself "American" but rather global. - Curly1918 - 9:30am 12/17/18
    • We have been in a trade war for them for twenty years, and lost badly - Hank Scorpio - 10:59pm 12/16/18
    • In case you are wondering why I haven't answered, it is because I have no idea what the answer is. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 10:19pm 12/16/18
    • No one wins trade wars - Chris94 - 3:56pm 12/16/18
      • Would you say noone wins regular wars because there are costs? [NT] - NedoftheHill - 8:06pm 12/16/18
        • Trade wars are not regular wars. [NT] - Chris94 - 2:43am 12/17/18
          • Nice dodge. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 11:01pm 12/17/18
        • Nope. Up through WWII there were winners and losers [NT] - CC72 - 11:40pm 12/16/18
      • im generally for full fair and open trade, but china’s theft of US IP must be addressed. [NT] - WestCoastIrishFan - 4:02pm 12/16/18
        • Explain how they are stealing US IP, and how you would stop it. [NT] - LehighND - 5:03pm 12/16/18
          • Do you really need this explained to you? [NT] - Hank Scorpio - 10:57pm 12/16/18
            • You are useless. [NT] - LehighND - 12:42pm 12/17/18
          • Don't know if these are what Trump is getting at, but here is my experience. - NedoftheHill - 5:37pm 12/16/18
            • Good stuff. Some replies. - LehighND - 1:22pm 12/17/18
              • Follow up. - NedoftheHill - 8:38pm 12/17/18
                • Thanks. That's good stuff. - LehighND - 2:23pm 12/18/18
                • Trump already scuttled a trans Asia trade deal. Leaving China the winner. [NT] - Frank L - 9:58pm 12/17/18
                  • I think he's shown a willingness to revisit trade deals and make them better. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 11:02pm 12/17/18
                    • He’s shown more ability to fuck up those deals. Just stupid to pull out of that Pacific deal. [NT] - Frank L - 11:08pm 12/17/18
                      • Outline why that was bad? Do you think NAFTA2 is also bad? [NT] - NedoftheHill - 12:55am 12/18/18
                        • Bad, because it would have provided a trading bloc counterpart to China in Asia with us at the head - Frank L - 10:05am 12/18/18
            • can’t go on better than that. i also know from personal experience at a former - WestCoastIrishFan - 8:22pm 12/16/18
              • Yes, their courts generally ignore decisions of courts outside of China. - NedoftheHill - 9:54pm 12/16/18
    • The Chinese are a closed society and right now do not create anything - Curly1918 - 3:36pm 12/16/18
      • Where in the world did you come up with such a bizarre notion? [NT] - LehighND - 5:02pm 12/16/18
        • Creativity only thrives in an environment of an open exchange of information - Curly1918 - 9:27am 12/17/18
      • They actually create lots of things. [NT] - Chris94 - 3:56pm 12/16/18
        • I opened this post expecting to see a list of recent Chinese creations [NT] - Curly1918 - 9:21am 12/17/18
        • Yes, but his point still has merit. - NedoftheHill - 10:17pm 12/16/18
    • Unfortunately, no - CC72 - 3:36pm 12/16/18
    • It seems so, but I've asked in the past for specifics of what people consider victory. - LehighND - 1:57pm 12/16/18
      • I don't know what needs to be done, but I know Dems & GOP want the status quo, which isn't working. - NedoftheHill - 10:25pm 12/16/18
        • I think any reasonable person would agree with that. - LehighND - 8:07pm 12/17/18
        • What you regularly fail to take in account is that the “change” may even be worse. Czarist Russia - Frank L - 4:28pm 12/17/18
          • I do take that into account, but I think GOP & Dem policies are taking us to worse places already. - NedoftheHill - 8:46pm 12/17/18
            • Those policies have also created some of the greatest peacetime prosperity for the West. - Frank L - 9:53pm 12/17/18
              • And now squandering that. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 11:03pm 12/17/18
                • So what’s he replacing it with that’s better? Outline the policy and why it’s better. [NT] - Frank L - 11:08pm 12/17/18
                  • You haven't been following him? How about correcting trade imbalances and repealing regulations. - NedoftheHill - 12:37am 12/18/18
                    • At what cost correcting trade imbalances, to what demonstrable benefit? - Frank L - 8:54am 12/18/18
                      • "Repealing regulation is a standard R message"...that the R's never make good on. - NedoftheHill - 9:57am 12/18/18
                        • The cost is going to be a slowdown of the economy. How big is the question. - Frank L - 10:14am 12/18/18
                          • Bubble is bursting anyway. Looking pretty grim right now. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 5:06pm 12/18/18
      • disagree. adherence to WTO courts would be a win. additionally, - WestCoastIrishFan - 10:19pm 12/16/18
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