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Home > Forums > The Open Forum
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Then good for me. I support men of principle. I support democracy.

Author: conorlarkin (22000 Posts - Original UHND Member)
Posted at 12:07 pm on Mar 3, 2022
View All

You support corrupt compromised and morally bankrupt folks like Trump. We get it.

Trump would have let Putin do whatever he wants. Let us remind you of what Trump did with regard to Zelensky and Ukraine:

1. Spread propaganda about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election:

As early as 2017, Trump began voicing the conspiracy theory that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 presidential election. This was one of the things Trump pressured Zelensky to “investigate” while withholding military aid.

It’s complete nonsense, and crucially, it echoed Russian propaganda that had a geopolitical purpose. Putin himself reportedly put this idea in Trump’s head. And Fiona Hill, then a top national security official, testified that this propaganda helped Russia by deflecting attention from Russia’s own interference in 2016 and by dividing the United States from an ally.

And don’t forget: At the time, some Republican lawmakers lent support to Trump’s lie about Ukraine, thus advancing “Russian interests,” as Hill put it.

2. Ousted the well-regarded U.S. ambassador to Ukraine:

Trump pushed out Marie Yovanovitch in 2019, after his lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani mounted a smear campaign against her. Yovanovitch was perceived as disloyal to Trump.

Here again the move apparently advanced Russia’s geopolitical interests at Ukraine’s expense. As the House impeachment report details, it hampered the United States’ ability to develop relations with Ukraine amid a “period of transition” — Zelensky was then a new president — and amid efforts to fend off Russian aggression.

3. Froze military assistance to Ukraine:

Well before extorting Zelensky, Trump alarmed officials by freezing military aid to Ukraine that Congress had appropriated, but without meaningful policy justification. Crucially, officials subsequently testified that granting this aid was important in dissuading Russian aggression, which would be in European and U.S. interests.

4. Withheld a White House meeting from Zelensky:

In 2019, Trump communicated in various ways to Zelensky that a much-sought-after White House meeting would be conditioned on doing his corrupt dirt-digging on Joe Biden.

Numerous high level officials later testified that this meeting was critical to Zelensky. It would grant him prestige and send an international message that the United States was siding with Ukraine against Russian aggression.

5. Turned Ukraine policy over to Giuliani:

This was one of the most shocking subplots: Trump repeatedly instructed Zelensky to contact Giuliani to discuss what Zelensky would be required to do to please Trump. Giuliani’s circumvention of national security protocols deeply alarmed officials.

That effectively handed potential influence over the future of U.S.-Ukraine relations to Trump’s personal lawyer — to the ringleader of the scheme to pressure Ukraine into helping Trump further corrupt our own elections.

All this has important forward-looking implications, now that Trump may run for president again. As president in 2025, he’d be stewarding relations with Russia, Ukraine and NATO, but after this war has unfolded.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

The American Dream belongs to all of us. — Kamala Harris

Replies to: "Then good for me. I support men of principle. I support democracy."

  • The only exit ramp for Putin is the Russian people -- a coup or overthrow of his regime. [LINK] - conorlarkin - 10:52am 3/3/22 (38) [View All]
    • The US is willing to fight down to the last Ukrainian [NT] - eftg1 - 2:46pm 3/3/22
    • The removal of Vladimir Putin needs to be 'Priority #1'...until it is achieved. [NT] - TyroneIrish - 2:33pm 3/3/22
    • Could you say something sensible, realistic? If you meant we need "regime change" approach, then I - Eli - 12:48pm 3/3/22
    • You voted for this so stop complaining and accept that Ukranian blood is on your hands. - Cole - 11:53am 3/3/22
      • Foreign aid,stealing money from poor people in rich nations,giving it to rich people in poor nations [NT] - eftg1 - 2:13pm 3/3/22
        • and kicking back to enrich politician families like Hunter, Podesta brothers, Clinton foundation [NT] - Eli - 3:12pm 3/3/22
          • What Eli said 💯%🥇 [NT] - eftg1 - 3:56pm 3/3/22
      • Then good for me. I support men of principle. I support democracy. - conorlarkin - 12:07pm 3/3/22
        • You'd make more progress trying to explain these things to your dog. [NT] - Chris94 - 12:27pm 3/3/22
          • … or a CMU. [NT] - jimbasil - 1:00pm 3/3/22
        • "Men of principle"? Those really do not exist in Washington. Just because you vote for them - TampaIrish - 12:23pm 3/3/22
        • Is that man of principle Joe Biden, whose drug-addled no experience son sat on the Board of a - Cole - 12:21pm 3/3/22
      • Amazingly stupid. - Chris94 - 12:03pm 3/3/22
    • He is fighting a war at home too - and that is going poorly [LINK] - Chris94 - 11:05am 3/3/22
      • A desperate Putin would be dangerous indeed. - NedoftheHill - 1:30pm 3/3/22
        • The more unhinged he becomes, the better. - conorlarkin - 1:53pm 3/3/22
      • Survival is always a tipping point. The Russian people are starting to calculate the odds. - conorlarkin - 12:25pm 3/3/22
        • And how do you know who replaces Putin will not be worse? He is a madman but you have - TampaIrish - 12:28pm 3/3/22
          • If it is a coup, then we get a new autocrat (likely selected by oligarchs). Still a better option. - conorlarkin - 12:42pm 3/3/22
      • This was a completely irrational gambit right from the start. - Iggle - 11:14am 3/3/22
    • If you are Ukraine, at what point do you throw in the towel? - LanceManion - 10:58am 3/3/22
      • Only Ukraine has standing to answer that question. A very difficult one. - conorlarkin - 11:59am 3/3/22
        • Agreed. - NedoftheHill - 1:39pm 3/3/22
        • You can argue either way, but I think you have to fight to the end - LanceManion - 1:20pm 3/3/22
      • I have a feeling that if the government surrenders, Putin will not have any mercy on anyone. - ELP - 11:14am 3/3/22
        • Agree. There is no second act, only capitulation and death. - LanceManion - 1:23pm 3/3/22
        • No mercy on Ukraine's Azov Battalion. It's a shame Ukraine used neoNAZI in 2014 coup. Their war - Eli - 12:56pm 3/3/22
      • NAT [NT] - CapeIrish - 11:03am 3/3/22
        • NATO is an empty shell militarily and we won't fight so sadly Ukraine must capitulate............... - CapeIrish - 11:14am 3/3/22
          • Ukraine is not a member of NATO. - Hibakusha - 1:13pm 3/3/22
            • Trump pushed to withdraw from NATO? Interesting. Got a link? [NT] - NedoftheHill - 1:41pm 3/3/22
              • Here's another one. [NT] [LINK] - Hibakusha - 3:38pm 3/3/22
                • I read the first few paragraphs. When do they get to the part about Trump pushing for withdrawal? - NedoftheHill - 1:27am 3/5/22
              • Here. [LINK] - conorlarkin - 2:30pm 3/3/22
                • Can't read it, but here are my thoughts: seems like a negotiation tactic. - NedoftheHill - 3:41pm 3/3/22
                  • All good points which could have been made quietly within diplomatic channels - Hibakusha - 3:53pm 3/3/22
                    • Well, this was Trump we are talking about. Less effective your way; more effective in public. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 1:26am 3/5/22
                    • Exactly. Trump's foreign policy consisted of random conflicting tweets -- like a drunk. - conorlarkin - 4:13pm 3/3/22

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