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Home > Forums > Football Message Board
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Disagree with your premise. Here are a few salient points

Author: Shadow_of_the_Dome (4618 Posts - Original UHND Member)
Posted at 4:46 pm on Jan 8, 2019
View All

It is rather difficult to compare students 30-40 years apart:

First, SAT scores are now inflated. For example, the average SAT math score went up from 497 in 1984 to 513 in 2014. When they revised the SAT in 2017, it jumped up to 527. It is meaningless to compare scores that far back in time with today.

High school GPA’s are inflated. First, there is general inflation—no one likes to give C’s or below these days. Also Honors and AP grades are scaled. It is now possible to get over a 4.0 because for example at some schools an AP course A is worth a 4.5 and an honors A is worth a 4.2. Back in the 80’s, this was not common.

ND has always accepted athletes with grades/test scores below the average for the university overall. I think this is universal and falls in the exceptional ability category.

What I sense is different about Kelly is that they are now targeting HS sophomores and juniors, getting them engaged with admissions earlier in their process to ensure they are taking the appropriate classes to make it into ND. This in essence widens the pool of those available to ND given the student has enough interest for n their education to prepare.

My sense is there is not a big difference in the GPA/test scores of the student athletes ND signs versus other schools. What is different is they expect just a few more specific classes (e.g. foreign language), Also, they must make real progress towards a degree once enrolled.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Replies to: "Disagree with your premise. Here are a few salient points"

  • Curious..I know many of Holtz’ Players would no longer be accepted at ND. Any idea how ’ - WestCoastIrishFan - 3:33pm 1/8/19 (43) [View All]
    • Disagree with your premise. Here are a few salient points - Shadow_of_the_Dome - 4:46pm 1/8/19
      • Prop 48 connotation hurt going forward as well as they didn’t have to have two languages (one being - whatsamataU - 8:03pm 1/8/19
      • Overall you make some good points points but you miss big on one - D2 - 5:14pm 1/8/19
      • That is sound and I believe true. [NT] - THEISMANCARR - 5:10pm 1/8/19
      • No premise; it’s a question. [NT] - WestCoastIrishFan - 5:08pm 1/8/19
    • How do you know this? [NT] - Nigel Tufnel - 4:13pm 1/8/19
      • Referencing what many have said on here for years [NT] - WestCoastIrishFan - 5:09pm 1/8/19
        • As I thought - Nigel Tufnel - 6:14pm 1/8/19
          • Different sports, but bear with nme for a sec - 86domer - 12:09pm 1/9/19
            • Well put - WoodstockIrish - 3:00pm 1/9/19
              • It is about recruiting and retention - Dinglewood - 6:05pm 1/9/19
                • Good point - ND must support these recruits - 86domer - 3:12pm 1/10/19
                • Didnt Tony Rice attend the school across US31, next door to St Mary's? - WoodstockIrish - 12:01pm 1/10/19
                  • Rice came straight to ND (I think you are thinking Holy Cross) - 86domer - 12:38pm 1/10/19
                    • That is correct. A prop 48 student would not have gone to a junior college... - Irish_Demon - 4:24pm 1/10/19
                      • Couple points - Dinglewood - 3:12pm 1/12/19
          • Something is preventing ND from recruiting the way Holtz did? [NT] - WestCoastIrishFan - 9:13pm 1/8/19
            • I don't have a good answer to that - Nigel Tufnel - 1:58pm 1/9/19
              • What exactly is a gray shirting practice? - WoodstockIrish - 3:04pm 1/9/19
                • Bama and many top programs practice what you describe, but that is not gray shirting. - Irish_Demon - 5:13pm 1/9/19
                  • Keep in mind too - WoodstockIrish - 12:03pm 1/10/19
                    • Absolutely right. The financial hardship is why so many enroll in junior college. Also... - Irish_Demon - 4:40pm 1/10/19
                    • In-state tuition at Bama is over $10,000 per year. Out of state, around $30,000. [LINK] - Napoleon - 12:15pm 1/10/19
                      • In this day and age - WoodstockIrish - 12:27pm 1/10/19
                        • That’s the problem. - Napoleon - 10:55pm 1/10/19
                          • Agree [NT] - Irish_Demon - 10:46am 1/11/19
                        • That would be very cheap. But he cited tuition only. He did not include the other costs associated. - Irish_Demon - 4:38pm 1/10/19
                          • Yes. The point I was trying to make is that it is a big financial burden. - Napoleon - 10:57pm 1/10/19
                            • Very true [NT] - Irish_Demon - 10:49am 1/11/19
    • Werent there articles - WoodstockIrish - 3:37pm 1/8/19
      • Scores over a 1000 are pretty good for football players, even Stanford has some of those. I think - THEISMANCARR - 4:38pm 1/8/19
        • It is considerably lower than their peers - WoodstockIrish - 4:52pm 1/8/19
          • Every school with high academic standards has football players with "considerably lower" scores than - Napoleon - 10:12am 1/9/19
            • Understood - WoodstockIrish - 11:23am 1/9/19
              • I don't agree that academic standards are "keeping us from being elite." - Napoleon - 11:32am 1/9/19
                • Agree - 86domer - 12:24pm 1/9/19
          • I've been looking for a discussion such as this. I'm a facts guy and - smalltown - 7:45pm 1/8/19
          • No doubt about that but I do think SAT scores are a bit overrated. I have seen more determined less - THEISMANCARR - 5:13pm 1/8/19
            • Exactly, the point of a standardized test is because it's an easy way to quickly judge the masses - NDNEIL - 7:18am 1/9/19
            • Don’t disagree - WoodstockIrish - 5:15pm 1/8/19
      • not my question. curious about the Holtz years. [NT] - WestCoastIrishFan - 3:53pm 1/8/19
      • I highly doubt that. It would be an ESPN headline. [NT] - lacan - 3:42pm 1/8/19
        • There is little doubt that Admissions has been more "flexible" with Kelly - D2 - 4:34pm 1/8/19
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