Davie brought in plenty of talent after Holtz left he just couldn't coach for shit.
There was only roughly a 3ish year period when we weren't bringing talent in, and it mostly coincided with ty being the coach. The notion Weis was the first one to get talent to ND in 10-15 years is 1. pure bullshit and more importantly
2. irrelevant
Simply bringing in talent does not equal turning a program around. Faust brought in a lot of talent, while running the program down, as did Davie...I won't say Weis ran it down but he certainly didn't turn it around either.
In terms of overall program health (which wins and losses is a piece of) the program was in no better shape when Weis left than when ty or Davie left, because none of those 3 made any significant organizational or infrastructure changes to the way things were done within the program and none of them ever established any consistent success/momentum.
Kelly, while I don't like giving him credit because I can't stand him, the thing he is really good at is the program building aspect. He made sweeping changes to the way the program operates. He turned the program around, not Weis.
And I don't know what you're talking about here, you're literally saying the same thing as I am but saying it's concerning how confused I am
lol
"By the way who runs the ship? A captain. Who runs a team the HC. It's troubling that you can't discern or relate these three things:
1. Leader/director (HC/Captain)
2. Components that make up a team that function to do the bulk of the work (players/crew)
3. The container of which the leader and team work within (ship/program)"
This is the same thing I was saying. In your analogy ty was the captain steering the ship towards an iceberg and you say Saint Weis (lol) steered us away from the iceberg.
I added to that he turned away from one to crash into another and that he did it while surrounded by better talent.
Simple truth is, Weis never made the type of organizational changes Kelly did because Weis didn't think that's what was needed. He thought his big X n O brain and strong recruiting was all that was needed. He was wrong and that's why the program was still a dumpster fire when he turned it over to Kelly.
What Kelly turned over to Freeman is a healthy turned around program, now Freeman is putting his tweaks in to try and enhance it, while learning to be a HC.
I fully get what you are saying, you think Weis was the one who started the turnaround...you're just wrong.
If you think he turned the program around, name some significant procedures or changes he made (something besides bringing in some talent) that going forward benefited the program. That just wasn't his thing, he was the smartest football coach and he went out on that shield.
There are plenty of teams who would like their programs turned around, if anyone thought Weis was that guy he probably would have already had another gig.