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Rhetorical question, because I know you have no idea.
your integration into the black community, what do you believe are the causes of their plight and what do you believe are the solutions? I truly am curious about your perspective. I ask that fully recognizing there are white communities also dealing with drug abuse and violence.
Lots of people on the left blame "systemic racism." Lots of people on the right blame insufficient individual responsibility. Neither are completely wrong.
The crime you speak of is nearly completely correlated with poverty - and not just poverty, but despair. Generational poverty, with no apparent way out. The social pathologies feed on each other - drug abuse, single parenthood, lack of good jobs, etc.
The same kind of pathologies occur in every poor community.
This is not excusing crime - more car jacking happens in my neighborhood than I like to admit - and poverty in my city is closely correlated with race. But it's not "black violence" any more than meth use in Appalachia is "white drug use."
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ity in the country, so this is not specific to the black community. It does; however, seem more acute and ongoing in the black community. I see three things as driving a lot of the problems.
1) breakdown of the family (I really cannot explain when or how this started. I don't want to say it's about welfare laws, but perhaps it is.)
2) loss of sense of community (be it church, local town, etc. )
3) loss of sense of worth sparked by work. This is why I'm so against minimum wage laws. Anything that gets in the way of work, I believe, is detrimental to society. For instance, baggers at a grocery store have been replaced by self-checkouts. Caddies on a golf course have been replaced by carts. Low income groups should be the most vocal opponents of minimum wage laws.
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The real story here is the epidemic of black violence in the United States, which is on display in cities of all sorts of sizes across the country, completely disproportional to the percentage of the population. Not only individual crimes, like murder, where a group that is about 13% of the population commits at least half (undoubtedly more) of the homicides, but the sorts of group criminal activity to which we've become accustomed. Mall mob violence. Outdoor festival mob violence. The local and sometimes national press will typically report on these sorts of common incidents and use the obligatory "teenagers" label, which then inspires about a thousand replies from the public correctly guessing that the reporters won't say "blacks." The response from apologists is that there is some sort of mass conspiracy by police, judges and "whites" to round up black people who aren't doing anything wrong and throw them in prison. The truth of the matter is that blacks are committing crimes, particularly violent crimes, at levels far, far out of proportion to their share of the total population, including far, far more than other minority groups in similar economic straits, like Hispanics.
You can't have a group where three out of every four kids are born to single mothers. That group is dead. And the percentages keep rising. One day in the not-so-distant future it will hit 90%. This is what breeds super-predators in society: angry young men. It produces young women who imitate their mothers and have children with loser men who abandon them, and the cycle continues. Majority black schools in these cities aren't schools, they're daycare/ housing facilities. Speak to any veteran urban schoolteacher about what happens in these schools. Speaking proper English and valuing education and learning is deemed "white." It's group/racial suicide, producing unhireable young people. Blacks who work their way up to lower middle class/middle class earnings leave as soon as possible. Businesses flee because of the crime and never come back. The cry from the civil rights industry and white liberals is then to have more "job training programs." I like Jack Kemp's old idea about "enterprise zones," but government won't solve the problem in this manner, either.
You're the expert on everything, so I guess you know about what it's like to be black in New Orleans.
You may not like the guy, but he's 100% right.
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you are not very bright.
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Mankind has learned, a few thousand years ago, that you can't legislate human behavior.
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This is the most racist post we've had.
Congrats!
little desire to work in the few areas that they are qualified for the wages being paid..
...to reveal their innermost, dickish selves.
They would never say it in "mixed company." But here it's fine, for some reason.
They can post whatever they want; that's the great thing about UHND.
But that doesn't mean that we have to act like these comments are not based on deep-seated, profound racism.
If you said some of the things you post in mixed company you would have your teeth kicked in.
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out his posting history. It could be goat. Really don't care.
He put all of his eggs in the Trump/Russia basket. What a fool.
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Getting violent felons and large scale drug dealers out of the community benefits those that have to live there. Falling crime rates have shown that. If you act like those four acted, you really don't think they aren't also pulling the same shit where they live? They need to be locked up. I also guarantee you they have no interest in employment. They are predators, plain and simple. Sorry they are of a skin color that has suffered oppression and that they are likely living in poverty. But that doesn't change what they are and the need to get them off the streets.
The folks who enable violent criminals rarely have to live next to them. They reserve that honor for low-income minorities.
And if that isn't compassionate, I don't know what it is?
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The liberal side of the argument is basically presented in the form of the results and then arguing backwards from there that this can only be statistically possible because of systemic and institutionalized bias. "XX% of the prison population, XX% of those under the poverty line, XX% of graduation rates/test scores are black. Therefore, the "system that created" such inequities is the problem. America (read: whites) owes them an unique set of entitlements to fix all this.
The conversation ends there, because if you want to state that there is a responsibility on the other side of the equation, you're simply a racist, ignorant person who can't see outside their own "privilege" to grasp the real picture. And, while we're at it, let's take your words out of full context and quote you on magazines and social media with your full name and personal information so that you can be publicly ostracized.
It's a disgraceful joke. Donald Trump's election is the direct result of this.
There is a lot of pathology in my city, and both right and left have their favorite explanations, which fail to capture the complex nature of the problem. I bet I live in a much more dangerous neighborhood, crime-wise, than anyone on this board. So I deal with it on a daily basis.
And I know what MAS and Westcoast put at the root of the problem, because I hear that too, when blowhards like them think that they are in a safe area, and can spew their bile because only whites will hear it.
Or when no one knows who they are.
very aggressive public dialogue. Your post; however, gets at the real problem. Someone brings up a statistic, and you hint at a violent response. You're no better than the punks in the video...violence is your cure all, which is odd given your pacifist stance on everything else.
Libs have run Chicago. Were conservatives at fault there too?
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I did when I lived in NO off Napoleon.
We use to play sandlot FB with some of the neighborhood kids. A lot of them just never had a chance. One kid, Jamal, we used to call rabbit ears because we would make him turn out his pockets before he left the house. Kid had no idea who his Dad was, and his Mom was dating lots of guys according to him. He really didn't have a home except with the grandma This is early 80's now. Often wonder what happened to him. I would have taken him back to PA with me if I could. I hope he didn't end up at Angola.
Plus, it's been beaten into his head in academia. No mental gymnastics are too complex to avoid dealing with the hard data, be it crime, the illegitimacy rate, student/school performance.
Idiots like Cole are full of shit if they think current diversion programs are adequate to keep those who don't belong in prison out. At least in this stretch of Trump country it always amazes me what can land you in prison for more than a few days. And it is almost always poor people and minorities.
On the other hand serious drug dealers and violent felons need to be locked up for long jolts. This is something the libs don't want to recognize and have wrongfully racialized.
You get a clown like Chris who attempts to derail the discussion because he's unwilling to confront troubling statistics because at some level he knows that "systemic racism" or cop conspiracies or poverty do not explain these discrepancies/disproportionalities. This clown is willing to argue that the mutilation of females is "cultural," but is unwilling to label out-of-control violence among a particular racial group as "cultural." It's acceptable in one instance in which he's speaking of black folks in Africa, but unacceptable when speaking of blacks in the United States. A group that makes up 13% of the total population is committing more than half of all murders and we aren't supposed to ask: what's wrong with blacks and their culture in the United States?
Ten bucks says a further attempt to derail the discussion will be to confuse the universal with the general.
lack of opportunities/quality of education.
We have predominantly white slums here in Iowa.
I agree with you that violent offenders need to be locked up a long time, rehabilitation is a lost cause. But it's mostly nurture not nature that creates these animals, need to find a solution to the environments that create such behavior.
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What you will find in the slums of Des Moines is rampant illegitimacy and anomie. Illegitimacy has a causal relationship to poverty. When there is no longer any shame, no social penalty in having illegitimate babies, you will see more of it and that's what we've seen. The consequences are devastating.
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Aging in prison is the sad solution.
This is what they're teaching in the H.B.C.U.'s and in the African-American Studies "degree programs" at schools across the country. New ways to claim yourselves as victims of some form of oppression being secretly run by whitey everywhere. Their demand is that we need to end the current prison system and create a justice system that is more "restorative" for criminals and less punitive. Because, you know, that's the whole purpose of prison - to restore violent criminals to a happy place of mind, not justice for the victims of their violent crimes.
prison level where far too many people are locked up for BS stuff, mostly drugs or non violent shit. Or because they can't make redunckulous bail for BS stuff. There we need to spend some money and do much better at diversion. That pisses off a lot of conservatives.
But for the violent stuff, they need to be locked up for jolts that take them at least into middle age. Mass incarceration is the only answer for predators. That of course pisses the libs off.
But both are the truth no one wants to hear or deal with.
one-time dealers caught selling massive amounts? You would let them go? Hope they move next door to you.
stretches as well. What I'm talking about are addicts who are small timey that sell because of their habit, or first timers with small amounts. You want to prevent them from graduating to bigger things if possible.
You really are an idiot and stop stealing my word "bot"
backtracking as fast as Obama said Russia wasn't a threat to saying he should've done more.
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You knew exactly what I meant and tried to twist it into something else.
I hate the idea that someone dealing weed in 12th grade gets nailed for a felony and a public defender and has his life ruined with prison time. It's a waste of taxpayer money and only creates a more serious criminal out of the guy than a better solution would.
That said, the violent criminals need to be penned up like the sub-humans they are. "But it doesn't deter violent crime!" "How can they ever re-assimilate into society?!" I don't care. Prison isn't to benefit them, it's to benefit the larger portion of society that doesn't commit violent crimes. It isn't the nation's fault that those who commit the crimes have a clear statistical trend.
Trust me.
The prisons, contrary to what we're told, are not filled with drug offenders. Those that are in there are overwhelmingly in for dealing and not for getting busted the first time.
The other fundamental mistake many make is assuming the if we decriminalize or legalize, these folks will stop committing crimes. When one avenue of crime is closed to criminals, they seek out another. You will not reduce crime through these policies.
Fred's mention of the military is actually something I've said for a long time about kids who have demonstrated criminal histories. At a certain point, to save them and to spare society, they need to have an ultimatum presented to them: the military or some sort of supervised work program on the order of Huber Law. If they don't choose, we assign them to one. These are the kids who day-after-day assault, harass and steal from other students and staff. At some point as a society, we have to take off the blinders and recognize that we are enabling the predators who terrorize us even more as adults, and waiting until they're adults isn't good enough. I'm tired of 80% of the other kids being held hostage to the 20% there to cause problems and practice their criminal behavior. We show more compassion and devote more resources and time to the 20% than the 80%. It's what I call "misplaced compassion."
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and that's after multiple waivers. It's much more difficult today for ex-criminals to get into the military today.
Adult records.
They usually get caught dealing pot or prescription drugs and get charged with a misdemeanor and get community service/fines. I believe one of the kids who got caught for robbery doesn't even have it on his permanent records. There are many other dealing/stealing/beating who never get felony charges and should be placed in that position of having a couple choices because society is not going to sit by and wait for them to do worse, not after the body of evidence they've created. I have kids who have nearly 200 infractions in a school year, which include assaults on students and staff, thefts, drug dealing and usage, and they're back again, learning how to perfect their craft in taxpayer-funded institutions. Enough, already.
I do think there are some who get things on their permanent record that make it tough to move forward with life - if it's drug-related, I'd like that to be something they can move past so that they don't think their options are already pared down because of what will be revealed on a background check by schools and employers.
But believe me, I'm the last person who over-sympathizes with the "poverty" myth or systemic racism as the root of these problems. Part of the reason we saw Donald Trump elected is the direction that Obama's administration was attempting to force social engineering across this country. Attempting to coerce cities and neighborhoods to allow public housing that the resident tax-payers do not want is a great example. Try to demonstrate that this will over-burden the school system that will suddenly have hundreds more kids without the coinciding increase in funding (a disproportionate number of them will have unemployed, single-parent households), or that statistics clearly show that this brings a sharp increase in violent crime and a sharp decrease in property values, and you are an unprogressive racist.
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Here's another book:
Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/War-We-Never-Fought/dp/1441173315
Happens every day. County prisons and jails are full of them.
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You are probably right there.
Try Texas though and you would be wrong.
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treatment. This is common across multiple jurisdictions, maybe not yours.
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Even if it's 30 days, that is a short time in exchange for fully paid treatment and having the conviction expunged. You are just peddling liberal myths about the war on drugs. Certainly, a joint or other small amount does not buy you 30 days in jail. Arraignment at best. Only the flight risks stay in.
JACKASS!
30 days per non violent offender? Time's how many? We are talking about a small time kid weed dealer, not someone with a joint.
You are the jackass, jackass.
And if what you say IS the case which it isn't, you shouldn't have any issue with these people getting out a lot sooner or not going in, right?
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As Judge Smales remarked in Caddy Shack, "The world needs ditch diggers too!"
Our economy increasingly requires technical knowledge and smarts. This precludes many/most of these people.
BTW, here's a book that might interest you:
Link: https://www.amazon.nl/Pathological-Altruism-Barbara-Oakley-ebook/dp/B00HNSNJRS
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