Think about who were the most effective Presidents from Kennedy on (not including Trump):
1. Reagan
2. LBJ
3. Clinton
4. Kennedy
5. Nixon
6. Bush Jr.
7. Obama (you are not an effective president when your successor dismantles your agenda and even co-ops the things that you failed to do, like leaving Syria and sentencing reform)
8. Bush Sr.
9. Carter
10. Ford
Reagan had his issues with Iran-Contra. LBJ was an asshole. Clinton is a rapist. Kennedy was a misogynist who made his secretary give his cabinet member a blow job poolside. Nixon, well...
What the hell did the allegedly most ethical presidents ever accomplish other than being present?
What happened on W's watch:
9-11
failed and unnecessary war in Iraq
Biggest economic collapse since depression
Sorry Cole, he's probably below Ford and Carter.
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If you aren't being a total dick to other people, then you ain't trying.
This is why Trump is his hero.
morality, dignity, lawfulness and wisdom that he has no other choice than to say that these things don't matter.
This is what happens when you sell out to a horrible human being.
Why did Democrats vote for Bubba? Because a candidate's agenda matters most to Democrats, not his or her ethics.
My post pointed out something that you and I should agree on and which is undoubtedly true: Democrats generally do not care about ethics except when perceived ethical violations can be used to delegitimize an opposing candidate. They just put up Hillary for instance.
Yup, I have plenty of friends and even family members who voted for Orange as “the lesser of the evils” due to his “agenda” compared to HRC. I could respect that in 2016 although I vehemently disagreed with it.
What I have zero respect for are bots like you that actually embrace this guy, support him, defend him no matter what he does. Those who really can’t or won’t, because they have so badly sold out, see him for what he is, a raw power authoritarian with no respect for our institutions.
For what it’s worth, I felt the same way about those who mindlessly supported Bubba because the economy was good, he was for reproductive rights, and he nominated liberal judges, the same tripe you are spouting.
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Reagan is ranked way too high, Obama way too low, Nixon not nearly low enough. I think Kennedy gets an incomplete for a grade, just because he was only president for less than 3 years.
Carter was probably the least effective president of this crew. If the point is you can't be a nice guy, like Carter, and still succeed as president, my counter would be that being a dishonest thug won't work either.
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I personally am not this cynical.
It’s not cynicism, it’s empirical observation.
.......I don’t see an ethical person couldn’t be good if they could ever get there.
No unethical behavior is good. But a lot of unethical behavior is worse than a little unethical behavior.
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McCain refused to point out Obama's ties to Rev. Wright, and Romney refused to criticize Benghazi and the Libyan fiasco. It was embarassing.
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We've had many extremely honorable, ethical presidents. Our system generally weeds out the criminals.
Which is why, when someone does an end-around, he can turn out to have led a lifetime of dishonesty, graft, corruption and fraud.
....he is the most honest politician who has been on the top of a ticket since Bob Dole.
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unless ethical rules can be used to take down someone from the other party.
As the Trump supporter that you are, you're wanting to turn to ethics as an argument?
But while you're at it, tell me my ethics and why I don't have them.
never voted for Bubba. But you voted for Bubba because a candidate's agenda, not ethics, matter to you most.
Therefore, you do not care about ethics as much as you care about agenda.
The truth hurts but you should thank me for pointing it out to you.
but if we're talking Dole - the man who helped pay off Gingrich's substantial ethics violation fines - vs Clinton's not so great ethics, you should be having that conversation with a true historian.
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Pretty idiotic, utterly subjective list, by the way. Should be called "most effective presidents according to my gut feeling right now."
They will look past a President's private life if that President is fighting for what they believe in.
We don't want a freaking sermon from Romney. We don't care what he says. We just want him to fight for Trump's agenda.
You realize that he is overwhelmingly hated by everyone else.
Being unethical, immoral, and fighting against a majority of the country's wishes is not a great combination.
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bully.
There is no agenda -
The only two I can think of are The Wall and new legislation replacing Obamacare, but each of those takes Congressional support. He's done eveything else. I am ready to be corrected.
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A trillion dollar porkulous? More deficit producing tax cuts?
All the rest - the fiscal responsibility, health care, the wall - all negotiable, and essentially unimportant.
...at least, your opposition's willingness to compromise and your opposition's principles. On your side, both of those things are representative of sanity and ethics...for the other side, insanity all around. No mindless extremism there.
You tried a moral code, and it didn't work out.
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....your rules. Dems taught us that agenda is the basis for voting.
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We tried that, and the Dems made such I. Roads that they were able to enact policies that I perceive to be immoral. At the same time, they consistently ignored their own bad actors and continue to do so.
We can’t afford that anymore.
I really don’t care about Stormy Daniels. I also don’t buy the 24/7 “Trump is pure evil” message of the MSM.
We are all mixed bags, and when anyone tells me otherwise, my BS radar goes off.
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...and accused by the Dems/Left when done by the GOP/Right.
If it is so bad that the Left accuses their own, then no, that would not be permitted of the Right. This is all about consistent rules for both, not selectively enforced rules depending on who the party is being accused.
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You love to dismiss all wrongdoing by the right by saying that it is merely following (your jaundiced interpretation of) the rules of the left. Whatever your side does is A-O-K.
Think about that a minute.
But I look at the policies of the party for what I believe to be right. I judge a candidate by the morality of their policies. If they have hookers in their past, that’s not my business.
I fully expect this to make your head almost explode because the Left makes a habit of assuming moral superiority. But I am pro life, I believe the border situation is resulting in far more suffering than even a wall (though I don’t really think an actual wall is necessary in most areas though there are some spots it is).
I am pro healthcare for all, but I witnessed personally that the old system was far better at actually providing that to the poor than what the Left put in place. I could go on.
No party has 100% good or 100% bad policies. I picked the mixed bag that I think is best.
I know that you did that too. Good people can have the same good intentions but disagree Bout how to achieve them. It doesn’t make a person evil if they disagree.
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The title of the article is far more considerate than it would be if Trump were doing the same thing. Anti-Trumpers would be wringing their hands if Trump had such a list.
Link: NY Times: "Secret 'Kill List' Proves a Test of Obama's Principles and Will"
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...would Jesus have ordered them to be assassinated? Of course not. So why should we?
I think I mentioned to you that I am pro life. I mean pro ALL human life.
I suppose beyond just my upbringing,I am influenced by all that I saw in my career. I’ll never forget the times I was pressured to perform abortions as a student, resident, and even an attending physician. One time in particular as a student, the OR case was supposed to be a laparoscopy. The attending doctor told me beforehand that he would let me do some of the case, and I was very excited. When I scrubbed and walked in, he told me to come over to the table where the patient was in dorsal lithotomy position (not unusual for a laparoscopy before the case starts since the bladder has to be drained). He handed me a dilator and so “go ahead and do a D&C first”. I asked why would we do that? His response was.....”In case she is pregnant”. I asked what the pregnancy test showed and it was clear that he knew more than he was letting on about the case. I told him that I couldn’t, and he moved me aside and did things himself and didn’t talk to me again.
I was not traumatized by this, but I share this story because it taught me something very pertinent to our discussion. For a moment, I stood up to the patient with an instrument in my hand, and I was suddenly told that I should do an abortion that I was not expecting. The attending surgeons had great power and influence over aspiring students in those days, and he urged me a few times to do the procedure. The selfish career part of me was tempted to do it. But when I actually was faced with doing the act myself, I could not do it. I KNEW it was wrong.
What I learned from that was that I could never participate in something or ask someone else to do something that I could not do myself.
I could not do an abortion, I could not Administer a lethal injection, and I could not pull a trigger on anyone who was not actively in the process of trying to kill others.
Thus, yes, I really do believe this. I am sure that it would be very, very hard to keep ones morality as a president. And I think the political system wants nothing to do with people who try to live their faith beyond using it as means to get votes.
Neither bin Laden nor al Awlaki were assassinated. What I meant was that I don't think you think either were assassinated.
As a matter of foreign-policy morality, this goes back to Thomas Aquinas - sometimes you are compelled to do evil in order to prevent a BIGGER evil. Killing a school shooter is evil, for instance, but you are compelled to do so if you can save more lives by killing him. Or a shooter on a bell tower. Or a terrorist.
1. Aquinas refers to those bad men who are “like wild beats”. If you catch a murderer when he is sitting down for dinner, does he qualify? Could you personally pull the trigger? I have personally found in a different situation that I could not.
2. You quote from a work that I have referenced frequently. I assume that you are aware that it outlines the 2 critical components that must be present in every act of intercourse for it to be moral - conjugal love and procreation. It is the foundation for the Catholic Church’s stance on contraception and premarital sex.
Are you down with Aquinas, or are you picking and choosing?
Don’t know much beyond that, I’m afraid.
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Although "allowing ISIS free reign" is pretty much equally stupid.
Good to see that you are going to be exactly as vacuous in 2019 as you were in 2018.
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Trump dismantling Obama's programs does not mean Obama was not effective. It means that Trump, bringing back dirty water, pollution, corruption, chaos is a detriment to this country. And who composed this list? Your entire argument is a slippery slope waiting to happen. Dictators can be effective, demigods can be effective. Your argument is an attempt to counter a respected republican's denouncement of Trump. I know Obama fired McChrystal, but his condemnation of Trump as immoral and dishonest should give you pause.
Two respected national figures, Romney and McChrystal condemn Trump in the most critical areas-morality and honesty.
“I deeply respected her,” he told HuffPost Live host Alyona Minkovski. “I knew her slightly when she was a senator, deeply respected her as secretary of state, really enjoyed the partnership we had. So I think that was one of the relationships that I will value forever, the respect I had for her and she had for me.”
Link: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/21/stanley-mcchrystal-hillary-clinton_n_5367561.html
He got fired for standing up to Barry.
Everything he said about Orange is absolutely true.
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Your guy is a boil on the asshole of America.