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Like every single person who talks like you, you wouldn't know actual oppression if it hit you in the face.
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What are you personally doing for these people?
With regards to us as Americans, I'm assuming you do not argue that we can allow everyone in who wishes to enter. When you deny some of them, are you not being monstrous yourself by sentencing them to "a closed box with four closed walls?"
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Unfortunately this generosity is abused by all the parties, i.e. immigrants, politicians, special interest groups... (If you are genuine, I can share many stories on my point. But I don't think you are. You only care about politics).
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It's easy to posture and pretend that this is a simple moral issue. It's not. A continuation of the immigration policies that have gotten us to this point are unsustainable for native-born unskilled workers and is environmentally unsustainable. Figure that into your moral equation.
1) legal path to citizenship for dreamers
2) fair and expeditious process for asylum seekers and unlawful entrants
3) Due process at all levels of immigration enforcement.
4) Kind an dignified treatment of all who enter our borders. [How we treat others under our watch/custody reflects on all of us]
5) Effective, I say again, cost effective border security (what we already have)(see Chris94's posts)
6) Balanced and measured immigration policies and laws
Immigration enforcement is much tighter post 9/11. Fact.
Trump sells fear to hayseeds. Fact.
Allow Congress to debate away re immigration reform. Have at it.
But, I know that spending billions on a wall is foolhardy.
I know that conflating asylum seekers and unlawful immigrants with criminals and terrorists, dishonors all of us.
Because that's the only logical conclusion of supporting open borders and illegal immigration.
And they're hardly out of step with the current iteration of the Democratic Party. And it just feels just all wrong. They force up crocodile tears over these valiant, noble immigrants and they have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to comment on the effects upon low-wage Americans adversely affected by this immigration.
They look down on poor people, particularly poor people who don't vote the way they want. As you said, all those racist, xenophobic deplorables. In a million years, I never thought the Party would ever come to this, where the folks in charge have no affinity for the lower class.
And vote to give them handouts to pacify their own white guilt.
Poor white people, especially rural, can go fuck themselves. It's their own fault for squandering their white privilege. Or something like that.
But as you've pointed out before, the charity only goes so far. NIMBY applies, other than the valet or the doorman they don't interact with any poor or working class types and should one find themselves into their gated community they'd call the cops rather than find out if they were lost or needed help.
I travel for work and love going to towny/dive bars, though I've done fairly well for myself, these are still my people. In my experience there are a few types of Trump supporters:
1. Racists - Only listing it first to get it out of the way. And we're not talking "get a hanging rope" racists, but just ignorant racists. These are people who have never met a black person and are really just scared of the unknown ("aren't they all in gangs", "I saw this about a Mexican on the news"). This is by far the minority, though some level of ignorance exists throughout.
2. Disaffected - Lost their job, health care, pension, etc. See everything getting worse and long for the days when all it took was character and hard work to raise a family working at the local factory. These are the "MAGA" types, they see an America in decline and fear their own futures but especially the futures of their children. Many of these people work along side Mexicans, are friends with some of them and don't blame them for coming here. But their families livelihood is at stake.
3. Swamp Drainers - "Fuck politicians, fuck lobbyists, fuck DC. "
4. It can't get worse - This is by far the majority of those I've met. A solid 25-50% voted for Obama, didn't get the change they wanted so they've gone a different direction. This is similar to #2, but these types haven't been directly affected by factory closings. Maybe a local banker or accountant in a small town.
5. Better than Hillary - Self explanatory.
I think the Dems are starting to figure out what happened. This is why Liz Warren was drinking a beer on her video the other day and is here in Iowa talking about "a level playing field" and her working class roots. It'll be interesting to see how that works.
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You introduced Christianity into this. What personal responsibility are you taking for these people?
As I noted below to Sparky, I don't support building a wall, I don't see much alternative to a pathway to citizenship, et cetera.
"So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full."
Especially the hayseeds.
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Makes perfect sense.
Let’s build a wall to address this problem that doesn’t exist! Then we’ll all be better off.
Governance! High five!
You're not a particularly intelligent individual and it shows in your inability to muster logical arguments and the speed at which you retreat to logical fallacies.
Let me help you out: we can have a net zero situation with regards to the illegal population and the problems I noted will still grow. So, you can keep babbling that same line, but it's immaterial to the points made above. For example, the proportion of low-skilled illegals could remain the same but with the growing percentage of young males who are disconnected from the labor market or do not maintain consistent work, there will be larger and larger effect upon these native-born, low-skilled workers, who compete with illegals for jobs.
Now, go back to babbling some line you heard someone else say. Then place an exclamation point at the end. It impresses people.
1. Deport criminals and undesirables.
2. Talk to the BP specialists and fund the security they recommend.
3. Pathway for those who have been contributing. If they want it, make it available. Those that don’t, vamos amigo.
4. Realistic legal immigration system.
Like what insecure, pathetic overcompensation looks like on web boards.
Hope you solve your national non-crisis, though. I’m sure we’ll all be better off.
What are you going to do with those disconnected young males, who number in the millions and are growing, in the face of 10+ million low-skilled competitors, who employers are free to pay much less?
can’t fill jobs at the bottom of the employment food chain such as agricultural, janitorial, meat processing, gardening?
I don't know that folks higher on the food chain realize how often people move from dead-end job-to-dead-end-job. You'd be amazed. As far as ag goes, those farmers love paying illegals off the books.
There are always going to be jobs at the bottom of the chain that the native, dead end movers aren’t going to want to do. At least not for the wage that it’s worth.
Immigrants have always filled those jobs. For example my sainted forebears were unskilled, Catholic laborers in Belfast. The job market was let’s say less than rosy. Even being a mule in the coal mines for low wages was better than that. Not enough native dead enders wanted to do it. They did because bad as it was it was an opportunity, albeit normally with an early death from an accident or black lung. Not much difference with these guys coming up from the south. They take the jobs that our unskilled don’t want or won’t do. Because it’s still an opportunity for them.
It’s a brutal system, but it beats all the others.
Immigration is not the cause of the erosion of our manufacturing base. Technology and trade are. And they are not going to be reversed. Some trades die off, other ones are created.
We’re at essentially full employment. Labor needs to adapt - move, learn new skills, figure out a trade.
That’s capitalism.
You really support this as a system?
We once had child labor in sweatshops a la Indonesia, but we recognized these problems then, created agencies and passed laws to protect labor. The advent of illegal immigration has reversed labor rights, benefits and wage growth. You really support this? This is a just system in your mind?
You're probably aware that my argument is not that immigration has "eroded the manufacturing base." Maybe, you aren't? You may or may not have noticed that I offered no Luddite arguments nor did I pine for the good ole days if a union manufacturing job for every blue-collar man. What we do need to do is to try to reduce the number of low-skilled immigrants we allow in this country, who compete with those disaffected workers in the midst of all the changes you note.
"Learn a trade." Boy, there's a new one. Move? Yeah, that's sound advice for poor people. This coming from the guy who got really sore when folks here chastised many of the poor folks in your city for not moving out of town as a hurricane was bearing down on your little sea-level hamlet.
By the way, how are we going to get all those low-skilled immigrants trained in these new jobs and with this new technology? I mean, I'm presuming given all the heartache you've displayed over their plight, that you want the best for them, if not for the hayseeds. How you gonna do that? More remedial classes at Tulane? Surely, you want them here for something more than dead-end, menial labor or political props?
They don't come in and take jobs away from regular 'Mericans. That is a myth.
They do the jobs that without them would go undone. And the way to stop them from being criminally underpaid is to decriminalize them, and give them rights.
Like every other immigration opponent, your real problem with the influx of new people is not economic. It is cultural. They pose a threat to what you think the United States should be.
It transfers about a half a trillion dollars each year from the folks at the bottom to the folks at the top.
Again, I absolutely love it when guys like you suddenly become free market libertarians when it comes to immigration. Hey, it's what the market dictates! The Holy Free Market has spoken!
With a bit of social Darwinism mixed in, too! Hey, those native-born Americans will just have to adapt or die! Mmmmmmmmmommy!
No one will be able to live a middle class life doing repetitive, unskilled labor in the immediate future.
We'll just train them in the increasingly technological trades and other fields that require more reasoning and processing skills than before. Easier said than done. We see this at the 9-12 level of education. The problem is that many, many of these people lack those capacities. We just administered the ASVAB test a little while back. Do you know why that's administered? It's yet another renamed intelligence quotient test to make sure people interested in the armed forces meet a baseline of intelligence. When you convert it to a traditional IQ test, I believe the baseline is about 85 or something like that. There are a whole lot of young males with IQs there and below. The military learned over time that if you place people with low intelligence in the military, they cannot of greatly struggle to do their jobs. Now imagine taking those same young men, many of whom also have troubled home lives and few male role models of industriousness, and try to train them in technical jobs that require a great deal of reasoning and processing skills.
So, you take those people, many of whom hop from job-to-job and go through extended periods of unemployment, and you further shrink the number of jobs available to them by putting them in competition from unskilled immigrants. Does that make any sense whatsoever if you care about those folks at the bottom? I understand why the folks who use these immigrants for cheap labor love our current system. I don't understand why enlightened folks who have some affection for this country and the folks born here contort to find ways to explain why we need to continue to bring in these people. Unless it's just virtue signaling and/or scoring political points against the opposing tribe in pursuit of electoral success.
Keeping them in dead end jobs to keep out the immigrants isn’t the answer.
Also, what % do you reckon we are talking about with IQ’s that low? Interesting also, that even the military apparently takes illegals as some of ours can’t pass the test.
That's a lot of people. Millions of people, many of whom make up that segment of the population that struggles to stay employed. Quite a few more men than women. Think about many of the jobs that unskilled immigrants fill. They tend to be male-dominated jobs.
Label them all racist deplorable hayseeds and ignore their plight.