With the exception of Mariano. Baines, Martinez, Lee Smith, Mussina, Halladay. I think you can make a great case against any of them being there. Even before the PED scandal do you think any of those players were better than Bonds or Clemens?
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Hopefully while he is still young enough to cherish it.
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marginal at best. Martinez, you don’t field, you aren't HOF.
P.S Forgot Sandman as he was just obvious.
The greatest closer/reliever to ever play the game, the #3 all-time saves leader (with 7 All-Stars and 3 Rolaids awards), a starting pitcher in the top 25 of W.A.R. ever (who also tossed in 7 Gold Gloves), and a guy who was unquestionably one of the very best starting pitchers of the 2000's/2010s (who has never been tainted with the P.E.D. issues)?
I concur that Harold Baines waters this group down a lot (and perhaps Edgar Martinez, for the purists), but I think you've got 3 no-brainers on there plus 1 guy who probably deserved to go on maybe his 3rd chance.
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(Sorry......you basically asked someone to post this!)
I may be a bit biased.
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Maybe not the weakest, but I'd guess most wouldn't consider it elite. Halladay was very deserving. Maybe he doesn't go first ballot if not for his unfortunate passing, but I think he'd have been a lock (btw, kids, here's a safety tip for you - don't go hot-dogging in a small, experimental single-engine kit plane if you want to live a long life). I could argue for or against the others, with the exception of Mussina, who IMO is simply not deserving. Always helps to play for the Yankees.
Or else you don’t really follow baseball. He was consistent throughout his career and statistically ranks up there with some of the best. Just my thoughts.
He had a long, very good career. He was never unquestionably the best, but does that matter? You could make similar statements about Henry Aaron, or more recently, Jim Thome.
Harold Baines is the weak link in this class. Martinez is in so that the "he's just a DH" crowd can't refuse to vote for David Ortiz.
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Just a quietly great player and person.
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1 - He played for some horrible teams, so there were a great many years that he was outstanding for teams that were way out of contention for much of each season.
2 - His postseason record isn't exactly sparkling. He generally pitched well enough to win, as his E.R.A. and K/9 would attest to in the postseason, but that record is 7-8.....fair or not, it doesn't exactly scream John Smoltz or Andy Pettite.
I think if the Yankees had either not blown Game 4 or 5 against Boston in 2004, they'd have gone on to beat St. Louis, and that W.S. ring would have elevated Mussina to no-doubt status. Without one, he is just lacking that 300-win or 3,000 strikeout milestone, which to a lot of people matters.
Personally, I think a guy in the Top 25 all time of Pitcher W.A.R. who finished in the Top 6 of the Cy Young 9 freaking times is an easy choice.
He falls into the 'very good for a long time' category. Not exceptional, certainly not someone who filled you with dread when your team faced him. Statistically, a very high ERA for a HOFer, no Cy Youngs, average in the playoffs. 5 All Star games over an 18 year career. And if you dare mention Gold Gloves, well, just stop. Who cares if a pitcher can field? Pitchers shouldn't even be eligible for the award.
He was an excellent, durable pitcher with great control, for a long time.
His ERA+ (which adjusts for the era you played in) is an excellent 123 (92nd all-time). I wouldn't call that "very high." And while he didn't win a Cy Young, he finished in the Top 6 of voting 9 different times. His Pitcher W.A.R. is 23rd all-time.
The guy isn't Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez, but he was a great pitcher.
I hate that stat. It favors longevity and Mussina perfectly illustrates its weakness. His WAR crushes that of Sandy Koufax, for example, yet no rational baseball fan would argue that Mussina was remotely as good.
Good God, y'all.
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At the time he retired he was the greatest closer of all time. Overall though, it does seem like they are grasping for straws. Instead of the HoF it is the hall of very good players.
I do not know what to think about steroids. Bonds was a HoF before he started juicing. Clemens? Hard to say.
Accept that it was part of the game, make note of it and move on. If the player is one of the greatest of a generation and the story of baseball cannot be written without them in it then they are HOFers, imo. Bonds and Clemens were the best players of their generation, they are assholes and cheaters but they were the best. I think McGwire and Sosa have to be in for saving the game post strike.
interest. Notes, special wing...do what you like.
What do you do with an A-Rod? I personally believe he used PED's from high school on...
All HOF caliber before any PED’s.
Bonds was one of the most miserable, but also one of the top players ever.
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No proof he was taking them then.
No real interest in it any longer...
Can’t stand the guy but he was a great talent.
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