Stanford has FOUR of the 32 5* recruits, including the #1 player.
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ND is kryptonite for high level recruits since August, 2014.
With kids, fashion is everything. Stanford is "in." ND is "out."
The end.
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In 2013, Notre Dame had FOUR - 5 star recruits. What happened?
Jaylon Smith -- All-world college LB - Great
Eddie Vanderdoes -- Grandma is allergic to shamrocks stays in Cali -- decent college DT
Greg Bryant -- Unreal physique and agility...never materializes..transfers. You know the rest (RIP)
Max Redfield -- All-world ability...shows in 1.5 games -- Cant wrap his head around BVGs defensive algorithms...uses weed and guns to relieve the stress...outta here.
There are plenty of 5* recruits and near 5* on this roster. From Quenton Nelson to Daelin Hayes to ESB to Jerry Tillery to Brandon Wimbush to Alize Jones to Nyles Morgan. You can find a number of recruiting sites that'll have any of these guys ranked 4 to 5 stars and #1 or #2 at their position. So what...Hunter Renfrom from Clemson has dusted Bama two years in a row. WALK-ON - 2* recruit. And Chris Finke looks every bit the same player if not notably quicker and several people have been critical of the staff because he's being used. Huh?!
ND gets it's fair-share of 5* guys. And a lot of schools like Stanford and and Baylor and Texas A&M and North Carolina will have one freakish recruiting year. Doesn't that equal success...nope. Usually it's result of a great year and the publicity brought on by it or by one players success.
But again...I said this previously...Clemson had 3 years of below Top 10 recruiting. '12, '13', '14. And 2 title games and one NC later no one is complaining about 3-star players lining that roster. And if someone again brings up JC players...that'll just be more indication that they don't get it.
It's still.....COACHING.
impact on the field. It is not the only factor but a significant one. Look at what the two best college coaches have done recruiting wise. It is not a coincidence.
Of course they're going to recruit well if they're good at developing talent!
You are a total moron if you think that recruiting rankings don't matter. They guarantee nothing, but they give the relative chances that a player will turn out to be good.
The factor most highly correlated with end-of-year rank in the polls is the recruiting rank of the senior class.
There are a number of things that need to come together including talent, coaching, scheduling, conditioning, injuries/depth, officiating--and maybe even a little luck with the way the ball bounces to become a college football champion.
In my personal opinion, ND's level talent is not a component that is seriously lacking at this point.
Get enough on the field and they will dominate. Get one or two here and there and it don't mean shit.
How game changing was Daron Payne this past NC game or the one before it?
Damien Harris came in and just turned the game around huh?
Tony Brown didn't do a thing.
Rashaan Evans tore it up huh?
I heard A'Shawn Robinson's name all night...wait...no I didnt.
Do they have player makers who were 5* recruits yes. Are they the reason Bama is in the NC hunt? Nope...Saban is.
And the biggest game changer on the field (other than Watson) was HUNTER RENFROW. How did he get by sooo many alleged 5* dbs?
Coaching...
field. It starts with talent, runs its course with a little luck mixed in with coaching.
Grabbing elite talent matters. This isn't rocket science.
Coaching is very important. Also not rocket science.
The two things are not mutually exclusive.
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he might need brady to win it all...i think he could make playoffs with anybody at qb
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a long way....
Martin, Harrison Smith, Blanton, Riddick, Nix, Ian Williams, Sheldon Day, TJ Jones...
Now Kizer, ESB, Adams, McGlinchey, Nelson, Sanders...This list is ridiculous if you keep saying ND isn't getting players...please.
ALL these are showing pro potential or on their way or are already pros and many of the key figures and pro bowlers.
It's not lack of talent or even great talent...at ND.
You are arguing against yourself here...you should listen.
They're flourishing. If their development was great where's the on field success?
They're talented, not developed.
Most of the guys you named stepped right in at the next level and started before the end of their rookie years. NFL teams don't draft undeveloped players, for the most part...they sign them as free agents.
Last year, we had lots of talent and went 10-3. This year, we were 4-8...let's wait and see how many ND players are drafted, and in what rounds they go.
You cite 10-12 guys who played over an 8 or 9 year period. Obviously, 1 or 2 guys a year isn't enough for any coach to produce a consistent winner. We have some good players, but not enough of them, as any observer can plainly see.
Our problems are nowhere near as simple to fix as you portray them to be.
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Ok then what is the problem then? If there's talent and the talent is being used well and coached well?
And 1 or 2 guys that were mentioned over those 8 or 9 years is far more than many of the Top 10 teams have produced.
And YOU said "undeveloped" I said...UNDERdeveloped. UNdeveloped is like an Amir Carlisle (now a Cardinal) or Romeo Okwara goes and undrafted and by the end of this year was one of the stalwarts on the Giants front has NJ.com writing an article as to why he wasnt drafted.
And just because a player can come in a play soon doesn't mean his head coach or coordinator used him correctly or put him in a position to win.
It speaks more to his position coached who taught him good enough technique. But did the HC, DC, or OC use him correctly? Did the HC, DC, or OC coach the correct strategy for this players ability? There is a major disconnect if the players is getting good coaching from his position coach and then it's lost on the field. That again is the HC's concern.
So ultimately this is about this perceived lack of talent. There isn't. Michigan and Washington both had several classes far below that of ND. But in 2,3yrs new coaches come in and they're seemingly solid among the Top 5? If BK was coaching either school...do you think the same would be said?
You talk about the game as though it were X-Box, with the coach holding the controller. You cherry pick pick ten guys out of the 150 or more who have played significant minutes the last 8 years, and want to make sweeping generalizations...it's simply very bad reasoning.
ND has given absolutely no indication over the past 25 years that they have any intention of changing their business model for football. The next guy they get is likely to be significantly worse than Kelly, as were the three who preceded him.
That really is all I'm saying.
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I agree that star rankings mean nothing with terrible coaching, but I think every national champion since the recruiting services started ranking players has had an average recruiting class in the Top 15, including this year's Clemson team.
I agree that its best to not dwell to much on the ranking of any one player, but as a group of players, the ranking of the class is somewhat telling (indicates if a school has the minimum talent level needed to win a NC if the right coaching is in place).
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...and I think it will. My only concern with the new staff is retaining Elston as D-line coach. I would rather they brought Elko's d-line coach and let Polian be the recruiting coordinator again.
Are defensive players less interested in "academics?"
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site, shows four.
What's the big deal?
education. Also a lesser network working for graduates and a much shorter time of tradition and success in football. If weather is your bag then go there. If developing great personal relationships is important to you, with a sense of cameraderie and caring that exceeds everyone else, then Notre Dame is the place.
You need to come up with a different argument, or post on the UHND Spiritual Growth board.
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a assignment, pulled off the field and told to say a prayer for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, or pulled aside after practice and told to go to church that night and pray the lord gives give you the divine power to play better. Then check up to see if you were there.
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Oy.
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