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Nowadays you can't even wave at a QB, especially after he's thrown the ball.
Brady has 3 times the number of Super Bowl wins as the next closest guy and 2.5 times the number of Super Bowl appearances. He's lapped his field of contemporaries more that twice.
Tom Brady: 6 SB wins in 9 appearances (10th TBD)
Peyton Manning: 2 SB wins in 4 appearances
Roethlisberger: 2 SB wins in 3 appearances
Eli Manning: 2 SB wins in 2 appearances
Warner: 1 SB win in 2 appearances
Wilson: 1 SB win in 2 appearances
Brees: 1 SB win in 1 appearance
Rodgers: 1SB win in 1 appearance
Montana's comparables are a bit tougher because his competing QBs didn't completely overlap his career like Brady's. His early career overlapped with tail end of Bradshaw's career (4 wins for 4 appearances), Plunkett (2 for 2), Theismann (1 for 2) and his late career overlapped with Elway (2 for 5 but 0 for 3 while Montana was playing), Kelly (0 for 4) and Aikman (3 for 3). Montana and Bradshaw stand out as the best of that bunch but the gap between them and their contemporaries isn't as great as the one between Brady's and his.
Pointing out Brady's accomplishments does not diminish Montana's. Both are incredible, but it's not as hard as people are trying to make it.
1. Brady
2. Montana
Brady, W/o Belichick, Brady is headed to the Super Bowl. Might just be the Goat for a long time to come...
And made the playoffs once in 8 seasons without Brady. I think Belichick is a great defensive coach, so I'd like to see him get a really good QB for next season just to see how he can do with something better than Newton or Stidham, but I don't think he's going back to the Super Bowl for a long time, if ever.
Brady's the GOAT and will be for a while, but man, Mahomes has the potential to be better. He's just as smart and as clutch as Brady, but he's got a better arm. Three AFC championship games and 2 Super Bowls in his first 3 years as a starter. That's impressive. It will be interesting to see how the Chiefs manage the salary cap once Mahomes big contract kicks in and if they can maintain a great team around him.
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Weis was interviewed on local radio here a few weeks ago and every comment he made was "Tommy this and Tommy that". Drove me crazy. I just kept screaming at the radio (because that's how I roll), "Tell 'em about 2007 Charlie, tell 'em!!"
He didn't,
Montana won 2 Super Bowls before Jerry Rice ever entered the league. Then he won 2 more with him, and would have likely won more barring the injuries he sustained under the rules of the game that Brady has never had to endure.
Brady had Moss - every bit the impact player that Rice was - and did not win a Super Bowl with him. He's had one of the greatest tight ends there ever was. His offensive line has always been one of the best in the league, and crucially, he's had the greatest defensive coach of all time for his entire career until 2020. Brady has had everything he needed to win big throughout most of his career.
Here is Montana's Super Bowl Kill List: John Elway, Dan Marino, Boomer Esiason, Ken Anderson. All multi-time Pro-Bowlers, all won at least one M.V.P., 2 are Hall-of-Famers. 2 of those wins were blowouts (Brady has never led a Super Bowl win by those margins - not even close).
Here is Brady's: Kurt Warner, Jake Delhomme, Donovan McNabb, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Jared Goff. 1 Hall-of-Famer, 3 good Q.B.'s, 2 lousy ones. Average margin of victory is less than a touchdown. Only 1 victory was by more than a touchdown, in a game in which the Patriots scored 13 points.
I'm fine with the argument that Brady is the greatest/most accomplished. You can't take away what he's done, and while a counter-argument is that he's been able to play longer than Montana, a great deal of that credit has to go to Brady for keeping himself fit enough to maintain his career for so long. But it's frankly silly to dismiss the argument for Montana as if it has no merit.
Because his supporting cast is better than either.
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Brady has won 2 Super Bowls without cheating. One was handed to him by the dumbest call in NFL history (Seattle).
He lost twice to Peyton Manning’s
little brother.
Call him the GOAT if you like.
But Great Teams win championships.
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Manning (2SBs), Roethlisberger (2SBs), Mahomes (1SB), Luck and those badass Ravens Ds of Ray Lewis.
Just getting to the Super Bowl past that gauntlet was damn tough. I'm sure Montana has a similar list in the NFC Championship games. The point is, you can only beat the teams they put in front of you. If the NFC Champions were led by crappy QBs that's not Brady's issue. The "great" NFC QBs of the Brady era weren't good enough to get to too many SBs (Favre, Rodgers, Brees) and as soon as Brady switches to their conference he knocks out 2 of them.
Danny White (1981 Cowboys)
Steve Fuller (1984 Bears)
Jim McMahon (1988 Bears)
Jim Everett (1989 Rams)
Not exactly murderers row. White was the best of them, and while McMahon did win a Super Bowl with the 85 Bears, a good high school QB could have won with that team.
Different rules, different times. Always hard to compare eras.
Thanks for assembling that list.
The 49ers out scored these four opponents 109-33, and 27 of those by the Cowboys (Dwight Clark catch) game.
By the way, he had Jerry Rice for two of those Super Bowls (88, 89).
1984: Three OL go to the Pro Bowl (Fahnhorst, Cross, and Quillan), not to mention, having Guy McIntyre there as a polished rookie. There was also a very fine running back in the way of Wendell Tyler. This doesn't even include the defensive players, where IIRC, all of that secondary made the Pro Bowl. The receiving corp was a very good group with Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon.
1988: One of the best groups of then-unheralded O-linemen (other than Cross) to play the game together (Wallace, Barton, Sapolu, McIntyre, Cross). Then Rice and Craig (one of the finest overall by a running back) had amazing seasons.
1989: Rice and Taylor, both go to the Pro Bowl, so did Craig, as well as McIntyre (even though more of that line deserved to go). Brent Jones had a fine season as well.
I don't disagree that Tom Brady has had a few superstars come his way, but I doubt he ever had a consistent influx of Pro Bowlers at almost every position.
Joe Montana:
0 Super Bowl losses
0 Super Bowl INTs
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For the very simple reason that Mean Joe, Hollywood Bags, Jack Ham, Dracula in Cleats, Donnie Shell and Mel Blount are facing Brady.
And if I need a big throw I know the Mad Bomber can make it.
Tom Brady is everyone’s GOAT.
But the team wins the game.
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Bradshaw smiled. “Line ‘em up. Let’em play the Pittsburgh Steelers in their prime.
I ain’t afraid. Not with the guys I got on my team. Not with Emperor (Noll) on my sideline.”
He said it as much with his eyes as he did with his words. Somewhere Mean Joe and Mel were smilin too.
That pains me to say, since as a fellow ND alum, Joe's my hero.
Joe Montana is easily one of the greatest of all time. Had he not suffered that broken arm in the 1990-1991 season (thanks, Bubba Paris, for whiffing on blocking Leonard Marshall), I honestly believe that the 49'ers would have won those two matchups against Dallas in 1992 and 1993, as well as easily beating out the Saints and Falcons for the NFC West championship in 1991.
The 49'ers were the one team that could have taken out that Washington Redskins team that year.
I suspect he could have had at least two more Super Bowl rings if it weren't for that fateful playoff game in 1991 against the Giants.
However, in the end, Tom Brady has accomplished more. There's no question that Tom Brady has also been able to do more with less talent surrounding him.
For a lot of those Super Bowl games, he didn't have the best receiver of all time (Jerry Rice) in his receiving corp, nor were his WR2, WR3, and WR4 options as good either. John Taylor, Mike Wilson, and Mike Sherrard could have easily be true WR1's on almost any other team.
He didn't have a Roger Craig or Ricky Watters caliber running back for the bulk of his games either. The only skill position where he had a superior player was at the tight end, where Rob Gronkowski does deserve a higher rating than Brent Jones did, being a much superior blocker as well.
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So that stat is meaningless and doesn't change the fact that Brady is better than Montana.
...not even sure Brady is in my top 3 or 4. I know he's come through in the clutch, don't get me wrong. And I guess I'm a Brady "hater," but I feel like he's a more talented Forrest Gump of the NFL. He's very, very good. But he's not the most talented, nor even the best under pressure (as a Giants fan, I can attest to that).
Career playoff game winning drives
1. Tom Brady 14
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2. John Elway 6
3T. Eli Manning 5
3T. Joe Montana 5
Please stop.
I meant he's never been impressive when there's a good pass rush. Like both Giants SBs. He just threw 3 INTs - his team won in spite of him. Montana SB INTS? 0. His game winning playoff drives are a product of him going to the playoffs an amazing amount of time. Again, nothing against him, he's very good. But he's not the greatest, and certainly not most talented, in my book - he's the most accomplished, that's undebatable.
Michigan he was often booed by their fans who wanted Drew Henson in there. I did have the pleasure of seeing Brady beaten in ND stadium by Jarious Jackson who played very athletically that day, along with a lot of help from Autry Denson.
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1. The insane pass by the Seahawks that was intercepted, instead of handing off the ball to Marshawn Lynch for the sure winning TD.
2. The colossal collapse by the Atlanta Falcons.
tion by Cincinnati right near the end prior to the winning touchdown pass?
1. Super Bowl XLII - If David Tyree doesn't make that ridiculous catch on 4th and long Brady has Super Bowl ring #7.
2. Super Bowl XLVI - If Mario Manningham doesn't make that incredibly clutch 38 yard catch late in the 4th quarter Brady has Super Bowl ring #8.
3. Super Bowl LII - If Ertz's 4th quarter fumble in the end zone is actually ruled a fumble, Brady has Super Bowl ring #9.
You can play the "what if" game all day long. The simple truth is, outside of Notre Dame and San Francisco fans, everybody knows Brady is the GOAT. Montana is incredible. I love the guy. But Brady is on another level.
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Tyree's catch was on 3rd and 5. The game did not hinge on it.
Ertz's score was never debated as a fumble. It was whether or not it was a catch or incomplete. The game never remotely hinged on it.
I completely forgot the Tyree catch was on 3rd and short. And here I've agonized the last decade thinking but for that one miracle throw on 4th and long Brady would have had 7 rings. Happy to be wrong about that. The pain is receding....
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It's a false equivalence. It's silly to deny the good fortune Brady has had in his S.B. wins.
But the point is that he has capitalized on those opportunities. Hell, in the win over Seattle, it's easy to forget the play that got Seattle down near the goalline in the first place. Sure, Carroll's staff fucked up. But it was a freak play that allowed them to get there in the first place.
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...no one (or very few) say Bill Russell is the GOAT; he has way more rings than MJ. Rings ain't everything.
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There is no objective measure you can use to bridge the massive gulf between Brady and everyone else.
Brady may be the GOAT, but if it were life or death, I'd take the Comeback Kid, who NEVER lost the big one.
I was a Montana guy when Brady won his first two SB rings. But once he won his third he converted me. I had them as equals until Brady started this late career burst of SBs. With this year's Super Bowl, Brady will have played in 5 of the last 7 Super Bowls, all after the age of 37, and been MVP in 2 of them. He will have appeared in 4 Super Bowls after the age of 39 (Montana retired at 39). That's just crazy.
anymore. Brady is the Goat. I have one minor if in this, if Brady had played in the era of Lawrence Taylor would he have lasted as long?
LINEBACKER made the Giants good in one season.