me how much I enjoy ND's independence...I wouldnt give it up unless pushed against a wall, no need to take orders from anyone, if you dont have to..I missed, Wisconsin, USC, Navy, Stanford, etc, etc and Im tired of waiting until less than two weeks before game time, what time ND plays Join the ACC, only a matter of time that spreads to home games too, including cancellations of games like WF this yr..
Ill admit it, independence has spoiled me...
If we win the ACC playoff, we become the ACC conference champion. Conference championships are important in the selection of the CFP teams.
So if we are in the ACC, we get a chance for a 13th game and a chance to be conference champions. Both of those elements are lacking if we remain an independent.
Kelly says he has two main goals: to graduate his players and to win a national championship.
This year, it will be 33 years since our last national championship. I am tired of waiting. Let's find the best way to get it done.
Join the ACC!
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We must recruit nationally. Guess what? Kids want to play near home once in a while. We took 5 recruits from California this year alone and they'll get a game each year, be it Stanford or USC, where they get to play near home with their family and friends able to go. We play all through the northeast and talent rich old south with our 6 games against ACC teams. We used to play in Texas, which was a good way to offer recruits an opportunity there. We take care of the midwestern states (Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, etc...) due to Notre Dame's location.
Playing the independent schedule across the nation allows our recruiting prospects from all over the country the opportunity to see us and come watch us play and gives them the benefit should they pick Notre Dame to play in front of their friends and family near home.
I actually think the 6-game ACC setup along with the wide geographic nature of our independent schedule is ingenious recruiting-wise and necessary if we are to reach the greatest heights we can from a recruiting perspective.
I could not agree more, no way I would support a move to a conference. The flexibility to schedule whoever we want (minus the 5 ACC games) is part of what makes being an Irish fan so special. I don't really care for the ACC games but at least it gives a home to the other programs. And it does give us Clemson, Miami, FSU, UNC and others as consistent foes. I love the fact that we play so many different teams in different locations. Who else can say they have played in Ireland multiple times, Yankee Stadium, Fenway, Soldier Field, Lambeau (last year if the Big 10 didn't crap the bed) and many other cool places. Off the top of my head what school can beat the list of who we have played (some in bowl games only) in the last 10 years or so: Bama, Clemson, USC, Michigan, Stanford, Georgia, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas, Miami, FSU (I know they suck now), BYU, Ohio State, VA Tech, AZ St, Northwestern, Wisconsin (coming up but should have been last year), Utah plus sprinkling in BC, Navy and Pitt as long-time rivals who usually put up a good fight.
I love the fact that the Irish get to travel the country playing a unique schedule. It's always great to hear how the Irish game is the "biggest game" to all these schools. Hell, Georgia had to add 500 extra seats for the Irish. The positives way outweigh the negatives. I also love it that our margin for error is smaller if we want to make the CFP. When we get in we have earned it, not passed through a weak schedule and win a weak conference (I'll call that the Oklahoma method). If Clemson was not so dominant how crappy would the ACC be? We had 1 decent win in my opinion last year and that was at UNC (not counting Clemson). I also fundamentally hate the conference payouts that do not punish the crap teams. You think Clemson is glad they have to share their hard won revenue with Ga Tech, Wake, etc?
No thanks. Independence is the way!
And they can't replicate it. That should mean something to all of us.
ships and now being considered the best program of all time when we once were.
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Would they trade it for all the NCs? No. But, they are still jealous of it.
If it helps you get through the pandemic
1. We will have a better chance to reach the CFP. Yes, the 13th data point is important. We can overcome 1 loss by winning the ACC playoff.
2. We are in the ACC for virtually all other sports, so it is right and logical that we include football.
3. We could schedule ourselves out of the CFP in 2022 and 2023 by playing both Clemson and Ohio St. We are almost guaranteeing at least one loss in each year by doing that.
4. This leads to the problem of a one loss ND team getting into the CFP. Other teams will have one more game, so they could be 12-1 to our 11-1. Coupled with our track record of getting crushed in playoff games, guess who the committee will choose.
5. If we run the table, we could get in, but that's a very tall order on a yearly basis. So by beefing up our schedule with the big boys, we could schedule ourselves out of the CFP.
6. Our old rivalries have lost their attraction. USC needs us; we don't need them. Michigan has lost their luster. Stanford is declining and who cares about Navy and the other mediocre Big Ten teams. It's time to put them in the rear view mirror, as well as our fatuous, infatuation with remaining an independent forever.
7. Times have changed. If we are serious about winning national championships, the ACC is the way to go.
That said, for at least the next few seasons, it makes more sense for ND to remain independent, here's why:
We are already playing 5 ACC games per year. That seems to be enough to reap all the benefits of ACC affiliation (recruiting-wise and for Olympic sports) without giving up complete control in football.
The 13th data point only helps if you win that game. Clemson is going to be really good and in that game for a long time. ND's odds of winning that game are pretty slim in most years, and odds of beating them twice in the same season are even slimmer.
West Coast recruiting would shrink to zero if we joined the ACC. Maybe we compensate for that with more gains in the southeast and mid-Atlantic, but probably not since ND is already doing well in those regions based on the 5-game ACC tie in.
Less marquee games. I would have much rather watched ND play Wisconsin than Duke or Florida State. Rather seen us play USC than North Carolina. These marquee games also help in recruiting since they get such good TV ratings nationally.
I agree that playing tOSU and Clemson in the same year was bad scheduling. However, We didn't have to join a conference to avoid that.
I disagree on USC, but agree on the other rivals you mentioned. That said, we don't have to join a conference to stop playing Stanford and Navy every year. Michigan is already not an every season game.
The primary reason to join the ACC IMO is one you missed, the bowl tie-ins. In 2019 ND would have played in the Orange Bowl instead of the crappy Camping World Bowl. That said, I wouldn't trade a crappier regular season slate for a better bowl.
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Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhbpdzYAhqY
to light a fart and her bush caught fire.” CLASSIC.
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I saw Carlin at Milwaukee's Summerfest. The stage itself faced backed up to Lake Michigan. During his routine (the beginning of the 7 words you can't say on tv stuff), unbeknown to Carlin because it was above and behind him, a big blimp with lots of bling hung over the Lake. He clearly saw members of the audience looking up and pointing so he turned around, saw the blimp and promptly went on a impromptu riotous riff about blimps.
He was one of my favorites ever since.
George Carlin.,,
Any argument you give based on the way things are, in particular the current championship/playoff structure and the competitiveness of current/future opponents, will not be persuasive to those who make decisions about locking ND into a conference in football.
As for ND joining the ACC in football being logical and right, I'm sure many would argue that if ND is to be in a conference logically it should be from a culture and geographic point of view in the B10, where it's hockey team currently plays. I have no idea what you mean by "right". ND negotiated the terms of its sports programs playing in the ACC.
In fact in 2015 we were #4 going into the game against #9 Stanford. Ahead of undefeated Iowa. If we beat Stanford, we likely make the CFP.
The blowout history doesn't matter. History says ND continues to get in bowl games where they are over their heads.
ND is always going to get the benefit of the doubt. They help improve ratings and “clicks” for online content. Just think of all the advertising they can sell on websites which have articles about how ND doesn’t belong compared to a 1 loss PAC-12 conference champion.
It’s good for business to have ND in the playoffs. It stirs the pot. The
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...game puts ND in the same place as 11-1 as an Independent. Likely on the outside of the CFP looking in or needing a number of others to falter to have a shot...
I'd prefer to stay Independent. Don't want to watch 10 ACC games a year...
.......this is a real problem, but it is partly a media creation. OSU got crushed by Alabama as well. So did everyone else. We also DID beat Clemson this year (and their back up QB could not have played better). Nonetheless, it is the narrative that the media will play as long as ESPN is driving the car and we are the only passenger taking alternative transportation.
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No, they haven't.
If you think playing UVA and Wake Forest will ever replace USC, you're nuts.
And going into the ACC just to better the odds to make the playoffs is absurd, considering the performances in the playoffs. I'll take playing Ohio State, Clemson, and USC in the fall over another playoff beatdown every time.
keep USC as our definite out of conference game every year. The other "rivals" less often.
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