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UND to retire "Fighting Sioux" nickname/logo......any implications for the Fighting Irish moniker?

Author: NDGOLD4EVER (650 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:57 am on May 15, 2009
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I personally think UND's decision, or rather, that of the Board of Higher Education, is wrong-headed. I feel for the many, many UND alum and fans out there, who I encounter almost daily living in Mpls.

Replies to: UND to retire "Fighting Sioux" nickname/logo......any implications for the Fighting Irish moniker?


Thread Level: 2

The Sioux as a "sovereign nation" do not deserve to be associated with UND.

Author: Killshot (13040 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:02 pm on May 15, 2009
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

No. The NCAA prohibition on postseason play/hosting only relates to Native North American references

Author: CC Fond (4901 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:27 pm on May 15, 2009
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Aztecs...not covered by the NCAA rule.

Celts, Irish, Colonials, Vikings...not covered.

If there was a team called the Slanty-Eyed Chinks -- not covered.

Not all Native American references are covered. School names (Miami or North Dakota can keep exploiting those names...as though it's meaningfully different than adopting a nickname to go with the name.)

Also not covered...post-season play in locations and cities that have appropriated Native American names: Pontiac Silverdome, Tuscaloosa, Omaha...

And, obviously, the NCAA rule makes no mention of prohibiting sponsors of the events from exploiting Native American names: Cadillac, Pontiac, Pemmican, Nike's "Air Native" shoes.

But the real reason we are sure there's no threat to the Irish nickname/mascot/logo, etc. is that there's an exemption for well-established football schools that use offending nicknames as the Seminoles managed to gain an exemption where William & Mary's Col. Ebirt mascot (a green blob in a tri-cornered cap) was banned. (Spell "Ebirt" backwards.)


Thread Level: 3

Your reponse compelled me to investigate the whole Stanford Indians/Cardinal/Tree story.

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:09 pm on May 15, 2009
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I had no idea it was this involved, or this hilarious.

-----------------------

From 1930 until 1972, Stanford's sports teams had been known as "the Indians," and, during the period from 1951 to 1972, Prince Lightfoot (portrayed by Timm Williams, a member of the Yurok tribe) was the official mascot. But in 1972, Native American students and staff members successfully lobbied University President Richard Lyman to abolish the "Indian" name along with what they had come to perceive as an offensive and demeaning mascot. Stanford's teams reverted unofficially to the name "Cardinal," the color that had represented the school before 1930.

From 1972 until 1981, Stanford’s official nickname was the Cardinal, but, during this time, there was debate among students and administrators concerning what the mascot and team name should be. A 1972 student referendum on the issue was in favor of restoring the Indian, while a second 1975 referendum was against. The 1975 vote included new suggestions, many alluding to the industry of the school's founder, railroad tycoon Leland Stanford — the Robber Barons, the Sequoias, the Trees, the Cardinals, the Railroaders, the Spikes, and the Huns. The Robber Barons won, but the university's administration refused to implement the vote. In 1978, 225 varsity athletes started a petition for the mascot to be the griffin, but this campaign also failed. Finally, in 1981, President Donald Kennedy declared that all Stanford athletic teams would be represented exclusively by the color cardinal.

However, in 1975, the Band had performed a series of halftime shows that facetiously suggested several other new mascot candidates it considered particularly appropriate for Stanford, including the Steaming Manhole, the French Fry, and the Tree. The Tree ended up receiving so much positive attention that the Band decided to make it a permanent fixture, and thus began the process through which the Tree has gradually colonized the collective unconscious of Stanford's student body.

During the first decade of its existence, the role of the Tree was generally performed by the Band managers' girlfriends. In the mid-1980s, however, the Band adopted a more formal selection process for its Trees. Today's Tree candidate must go through "grueling and humiliating physical and mental challenges" to show that he or she has sufficient chutzpah to be the Tree. During "Tree Week," candidates have been known to perform outrageous, unwise, and often dangerous stunts in order to impress the Tree selection committee; so much so that the University has felt the need to prohibit certain types of audition activities over the years, such as those involving explosives, firearms, and haggis.


Thread Level: 2

There was a local high school (Eaton) that recently was forced to change their nickname.

Author: jabbadoody5 (16656 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:20 pm on May 15, 2009
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There was a huge student movement to call themselves the Beavers. School officials didn't go for it though. What I don't get is that they changed the name but they still have a grumpy looking Indian for their mascot.

Jumbotrons are for big dick playas!
Thread Level: 2

The worst example of PC mascots gone bad was Eastern Michigan in the early 90s.

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:53 am on May 15, 2009
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For nearly the school's enire existence they were the Hurons. The school stopped dressing a person in Indian garb way back in the 60s or 70s out of respect for the Huron tribe, replacing him with an Emu (as in EMU). They set aside a scholarship every year for a person of Huron heritage and had the full endorsement of the two living Huron tribal chiefs. And if you've ever been to the greater Ypsilanti-Ann Arbor area, you will notice that every other thing has the name "Huron" on it--Huron High School, the Huron River, Huron River Parkway, etc.

Low and behold a very white president takes over at EMU in '91, unilaterally railroads the idea of a more politically correct name through the BOT--without talking to the Hurons themselves--and opts for the single most common mascot in all of sports, the Eagles.


Thread Level: 3

Another bad exaple was the interim mascot for the old St. John's Redmen

Author: TakethetrainKnute (22851 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:27 pm on May 15, 2009
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As background the "Redmen" weren't named after Indians any more than the old Syracuse "Orangemen" were named after British Protestants or, for that matter, Oompah Loompahs. Unfortunately for St. John's, however, they did choose an Indian to be their mascot at some point to go along with the name.

When that was determined to not be PC, they switched their mascot to the "Red Man", a douchebag dressed in a red tuxedo, for a while.

Eventually St. John's became the Red Storm...which just sucks.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 4

Or how about Marquette dropping "Warriors"?

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:45 pm on May 15, 2009
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Apparently in some alternate universe I'm not aware of, the word "Warriors" automatically connotes Native Americans.

Thread Level: 2

Nope, although there is still a strong connection between the two schools' logos.

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:46 am on May 15, 2009
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I believe the University of North Dakota was the lone school granted an exemption by Notre Dame for its trademarked interlocking "ND" logo. Nore Dame even went after my elementary school for using the fighting leprechaun.

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/500/GL/GLPHHXUOPAEVUQD.20081204214737.jpg

Thread Level: 2

They objected to being associated with trial attorneys?

Author: TakethetrainKnute (22851 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:02 am on May 15, 2009
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

No

Author: Hibakusha (3423 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:58 am on May 15, 2009
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

I would tend to agree -

Author: NDGOLD4EVER (650 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:02 am on May 15, 2009
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(no message)

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