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and teachers hiding sex talks with kids from their parents. What do those people think the natural progression is from those things? They didn't think that children playing with BDSM teddy bears was a possibility? This is mild compared to where all this is actually going.

Fuck those people.

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where those readings are held...you do respect parental choices...don't you?

perversity.

It's the information age, and they cannot help but out themselves. Tik-Tok, Twitter, name it...they just can't help but shout to the world about what they're doing. And it gets them removed.

level in schools (see link)...here's an excerpt...
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A student’s experience in school with sexuality education can vary a great deal. The Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States and the Future of Sex Education (FoSE) promote evidence-informed comprehensive school-based sexuality education appropriate to students’ age, developmental abilities, and cultural background as an important part of the school curriculum AT EVERY GRADE..34 A comprehensive sexuality program provides medically accurate information, recognizes the diversity of values and beliefs represented in the community, and complements and augments the sexuality education children receive from their families, religious and community groups, and health care professionals. Adolescents and most parents agree that school-based programs need to be an important source of formal education for adolescent sexual health.35,–37 (emphasis mine)
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While you, Baron and others fantasize about "Groomers", the adult world is working hard to develop 'Age Appropriate' educational programs for children, throughout their school years.

btw, the 'Natural Progression' of not educating our children properly and professionally in the area of Sex and Sexuality results in unwanted pregnancies, abortions, STDs, and many other physical as well as mental illnesses, including suicides...your "Know Nothing" approach doesn't work.


Link: https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/138/2/e20161348/52508/Sexuality-Education-for-Children-and-Adolescents?autologincheck=redirected?nfToken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000

Nobody is arguing against sexual education. Parents should be involved. Period.

You post that the EU does this education, but ignore the stat (from a site you found credible) that 1 in 5 EU kids are molested.

You ignore the BDSM Teddy Bear ads and continue to promote a culture of sex that promotes these types of ads.

"That's not grooming." Fuck off.

They have a compromise in most countries there, so it is too difficult to kill babies over there...he demands the most extreme position.m.compromise is not acceptable to him. So, he is selective with his persuasive EU links. He doesn't really think the EU is enlightened. He just wants to harm children as much as possible. He's consistent on that.

it's very clear...codify Roe v. Wade, so that we honor the moral judgement of over 90% of Americans of different faiths, or no faith, who believe abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances...typically cases of rape and incest. Roe also has a reasonable time limit that allows for a) knowing for sure that a pregnancy has occurred, then b) deciding whether or not to take the pregnancy to term, and finally c) gaining access to the procedure if abortion is the choice...basically, within a 5-21 wk window which would cover ~98-99% of all pregnancies based on decades of data.

Then there's the issue of "Late Term" pregnancies...do a search of that term with my name as the OP...you'll find the reasons are typically health related, or extreme difficulty in getting the procedure scheduled...under Roe there was significant scrutiny and approval required...and finally, there is no possible way to determine in the time frame mentioned, whether the unwanted pregnancies were "Real" as one bizarre GOP Congressman called them...simply ludicrous...which is why only the woman's word matters...it's her body and freedom...a concept you have thus far failed to acknowledge.

Never forget that having the government force innocent women to carry a totally unwanted pregnancy to term simply amplifies the pain and suffering they have already experienced and does so for the entire lives of those women...if the recent mid-terms didn't drive that reality home for you, I'm not sure what will.

btw, I've also repeatedly said that all the "Passion" around this issue should be channeled into 1) Making Contraceptives easily and widely available, 2) Dramatically improving Sex & Sexuality Education for everyone (note the results for EU countries that embrace it)...including and especially for, children, and 3) Greater funding for programs that encourage women to carry pregnancies to term...such as those we both have supported with time and money.

With all that said...What's Your Compromise?

allowed to post this Shit on ND board. Reprehensible is best description of him

"Sex & Sexuality" programs are part of the RESPONSE to molestations...teenage pregnancies...STDs, etc. "Europe" has many different countries...some very conservative that won't even talk about such programs (e.g. Poland), and those that have embraced them for decades (e.g. the Netherlands and Sweden)...guess what...the Dutch and Swedes have much healthier kids when it comes to the measures I just mentioned...clearly, the lack of any educational program

btw, you should stop 'Making Stuff Up' about all this...I've asked you to find any documentation that talks about 'masturbation' being even mentioned to very young children (K-3)...everything, in every program is designed to be "Age Appropriate"...and the programs are also developed with "Parental Input"...start acting like an adult and read the links...and data...I've provided you.

NB: Those 'Drag Queen' reading sessions are taking place in local libraries...and...the toddlers don't drive themselves there, in case you didn't know that...their parents take them...ponder that for a moment.

Hilarious that you reference the EU education plan as a success without their actually being any indication of success. If they implemented it as a response, shouldn't we wait to see if it works before we start blowing the horn for it.

"I've asked you to find any documentation that talks about 'masturbation' being even mentioned to very young children (K-3)" -- This was in the WHO standard that you gave us. YOU provided it to US.

And I don't have to ponder that parents are taking their kids to drag reading hour and drag shows, because I already fucking understand that. It's part of the larger discussion about the new culture of sex that is being fostered in thos society. All this shit is rooted in the same place.

and...you still haven't shown us the documentation linking teachers discussing 'masturbation' and K-3 kids....keep digging...don't give up...and don't worry, if you forget, I'll remind you.

I contend it doesn't exist...therefore the onus is on you to produce it and prove to everyone that you are honest in what you post.

btw, attached is a link highlighting the U.S. and other countries data on unwanted teen pregnancies...note that two of the lowest rates are in countries that have embraced Sex & Sexuality Education...here's and excerpt...
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Compared with young people in the Netherlands, who have the second lowest adolescent pregnancy rate in Europe, U.S. adolescents are faced with greater societal disapproval regarding adolescent sexuality, LESS-CONSISTENT PROVISION OF SEX EDUCATION, and greater socioeconomic inequalities that underlie higher adolescent pregnancy rates among the most disadvantaged groups. (emphasis mine)
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Time for you to act like an adult and objectively seek out data that addresses real societal problems...instead of hiding your head under the covers.


Link: https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/adolescent-pregnancy-and-its-outcomes-across-countries

You are either full of shit because you posted something you didn't actually read, or you are full of shit for pretending you didn't post it. Either way, you posted a WHO standard that provides the following teaching recommendation for 6-9 year olds, page 44: "Enjoyment and pleasure when touching one’s own body (masturbation/selfstimulation)"

Fuck off with this shit that I need to provide a link back to your fucking post.

acts as 'Touching'...'Self-Pleasuring' and 'Masturbation'...that is NOT what's happening and that's what I'm trying to get across to you...virtually ALL young children do those things...naturally, but without contextualizing what's going on...and that's where Sex & Sexuality Education comes in....it is not 'INTRODUCING' children to such behaviors...read the following excerpt from the WHO report we're referencing (Page 23...)..

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Progress of sexual development

The first 10 years
Generally speaking, during the first six years, chil- dren move rapidly from complete dependence to limited independence. They become aware of their own bodies. Children have sexual feelings even in early infancy. Between the second and third year of their lives, they discover the physical differ- ences between men and women. During this time children start to discover their own bodies (early childhood masturbation, self-stimulation) and they may also try to examine the bodies of their friends (playing doctor). Children learn about their environment by experiment, and sexuality is no different from other areas in this respect. Extensive observational research has identified common sexual behaviour in children, ensuring that this kind of behaviour is regarded as normal.

By exploring sexual feelings and desires and by asking questions, children learn more about sexuality. From the age of three they understand that adults are secretive about this subject. They test adults’ limits, for instance by undressing without warning or by using sexually charged language. Young children are extremely curious and ask a lot of questions. As they gradually lose their egocen- tricity, they become increasingly able to put themselves in someone else’s shoes. As language ability develops, physical contact tends to take a back seat. Children then have several possible ways to express themselves. Older children start developing a sense of shame, and family background is often one of the factors involved.

Around the age of six, children are still very inquisitive, but start noticing that adults are no longer as receptive to their questions as they claim to be. To find out more, they turn to their peers. Children of primary-school age become more introverted and prudish. Sexuality is dormant, and their moral development fosters a growing sense of shame about their sexuality. Sexual games take place during this phase. This has been observed among one third of eight-year-old boys, the percentage gradually increasing with age. By and large, the extent of sexual activity is lower among girls, but sexual interest also increases as they get older. Children (from the age of five and especially between seven and eight) like to display their own genitals and also want to look at those of other sex.
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btw, note the constant use of "Age Appropriate" teaching in all Sex & Sexuality Education programs...Kindergarteners don't get the same lesson as a 9 yr old who is very close to oncoming Puberty...
The EU program educates children properly so that they understand why their bodies/genitals are changing, and how those changes should be viewed...in ways that promote a healthy attitude, toward others as well as themselves....again, these teaching sessions are not "How To's"...or demonstrations...they are forums for accurately and properly answering questions that children have.

In short, such programs make sure that children grow up with healthy views of themselves and others in the universal realm of Sex and Sexuality...parents as well as teachers and specialists participate in the content of the programs...

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since over 90% of American families say "YES", I'm hoping you're one of them...and if so, then we can get down to "HOW" it should be delivered...

btw, I've attached a paper on S&S standards for such education that have been adopted in several states....it presents a slightly different set of objectives for each age group...check it out.

You're obviously passionate about this issue...I'm presenting material that literally tens, if not hundreds of millions of people agree with, I'm pretty much the messenger for all those others...it isn't just my opinion...so if this is to be a true "Forum", then share your view on at least the value of S&S education and why you feel that way.

Just saying you don't agree without presenting any reasoning as to why won't convince anyone that you're right....even with the abusive language thrown in.


Link: https://siecus.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/NSES-2020-web-updated-1.pdf

But they didn't learn anything new because I'd already taught them everything. They clearly understood the biological differences between boys and girls. They understood where babies come from and how a man and a woman both required to have a baby. They knew about how sperm fertilizes the egg, etc.

I've never implied a problem with sex education for children. But I decide what's appropriate for my kids, not you. And it's sure as shit not ok for a teacher to make that decision for me, and then keep a secret to hide it from me.

from your post, it appears that you only see this as a "How Things Work" kind of education...which is the "Sex" part...but do you see the "Sexuality" part? IMO, that's even more important, because it puts sex acts into the context of 'committed relationships' and not just getting personal pleasure.

When kids are taught as much or more about 'Sexuality' IMO the likelihood of unwanted pregnancies, or STDs goes way down...it also makes for more committed relationships, which adults like ourselves recognize as the enduring part of marriages...you can see where I'm gong here. That type of education can start much earlier than the anatomy and baby making lessons...right?...in fact, if you read all the materials I've provided, the rationales for each program express that objective, and explain why countries/states that employ "Sexuality" education experience the benefits documented.

It's the "Sexuality" and "Relationship"...as well as "Mutual Respect" parts that need to be embedded in children's minds, more that the "How To"...and that takes real skill as well as commitment on the part of teachers, specialists and outside guests working together with parents.

Note: my wife and I joined a group of other couples in our Diocese to get trained and then lead sessions for Engaged Couples...and sexual "Relationships" were an essential part of that program. Let me tell you that virtually all of the participant couples were in need, to one degree or another, of those insights...just think of all the couples who don't get such 'training', and the statistics that show ~50% of U.S. marriages end in divorce., btw, we got into this because I remembered a couple who came to ND during my senior year and spoke only to seniors in Washington Hall...there were no limits to the questions that could be asked...and they shared their personal lives with all those students...questions like "How often do you have sex?" were asked...and they answered honestly...but also sharing why that wasn't a concern at all...because of the focus on their "Relationship" more than pure pleasure. I could go on, but I trust you can understand what I'm getting at.

I'm not saying this is easy, or that everyone would do a perfect job, but these topics are not being addressed early enough and wide enough...ignoring this aspect of our children's development is negligent and cheats them out of a better life...never mind the societal penalty.

How far are you going to take us off track from the actual problem?

> Demonstrate that you understand the difference between 'Sex' and 'Sexuality'

>Tell me/us if you agree that 'Sexuality' should be included in school programs...if so, starting at what grade level...and 'Why'...

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my questions...take your time.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality

But they didn't learn anything new because I'd already taught them everything. They clearly understood the biological differences between boys and girls. They understood where babies come from and how a man and a woman both required to have a baby. They knew about how sperm fertilizes the egg, etc.

I've never implied a problem with sex education for children. But I decide what's appropriate for my kids, not you. And it's sure as shit not ok for a teacher to make that decision for me, and then keep a secret to hide it from me.

not to mention the entire course of our early life psychological development.

'Lucy' would be proud of you.

Or will you be supplying us with one of your famous links instead of relying on personsal experience?

I actually did psychotherapy and unleashed the hounds of unconscious hell and their associated anxieties.

Fortunately, it's like lancing an infection and allowing the psychological pus to drain away.

…but fortunately, there have been many, many successes.

What you call Perversions are mental illnesses that can…and have been…treated successfully, whether you want to believe it or not.

For reasons that are biological and/or environmental, we’re talking about fellow citizens who need assistance and understanding (e.g. LGBTQ).

As for our kids, they need education in all aspects of life and “Sex/Sexuality” is one them…it’s too important to be left to chance…hopefully, you can acknowledge that simple fact of life.

I ultimately managed to discjharge all the perverse, hatefui and painfuil; materials that were buried in my unconscious from early childhood.

I have enjoyed life without depression for decades and look forward to enjoy time with my beautiful children and grnadchildren for many more decades.


Link: http://nd

now, do you have a reply to the topic related content I provided in my previous post?...i.e. the need for treatment of those with sexuality issues, and the need for educating all children in the area of 'Sex and Sexuality'...

“Cultural war”. I guess I’ll take that over pedophilia.

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