Can someone offer a defense for THIS?
Imagine your daughter worked for years to compete against other young women in this race.
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Full conversation · 79 posts
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Level 2
Endorse what? Trans athletes with a biological advantage participating in women’s events?
I know I don’t and haven’t read posts from the other two endorsing it.
The only place it is endorsed is in your sick brain. You had to be the Flounder of whatever Frat you belonged to.
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Level 3
you have no issue calling anyone that voted for Trump a cultist. Since you voted for Biden, I get
criticize you for what you support
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Level 4
I never said anyone that has voted for Orange is a cultist.
I do think that there some people who honestly feel that Biden is the worse of 2 bad alternatives.
I do say that the very vast number of people who actively voice support for and vote for him are cultists. Such as you.
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Level 5
I will say this...
I'm always a little surprised when I run into people who truly love Trump. Mostly I find them online. I don't really know any of them in real life, although I know many people in real life who will vote for him. I think most people will vote for him as the lesser evil (after all, he is basically the anti-child-genital-mutilation candidate, and that's kind of a no brainer), as I likely will do (basically, the Bill Maher theory of voting).
I defend Trump, but I don't love him. I defend him because I think the Dems are destroying the Union and the Constitution in their efforts to take Trump down to retain power. I think they fear him unlike any other GOP candidate because he is the most likely of anyone to actually reset our government (drain the swamp) the way it needs to be reset. Frankly, I don't think he will succeed. But, I fear their efforts against him (and the perversion of our Constitution that they effect) more than I fear his presidency.
Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.-
Level 6
"Kids" don't get Gender Surgery...they get reversible puberty blockers...IF deemed appropriate...as
for DJT, he clearly tried to destroy our Constitution on 1/6/21...the Dems appropriately called him out on that...that's all anyone needs to know about Trump (although there are a nearly inexhaustible number of other reasons to disqualify him)...therefore there is only one choice...like it or not from a policy POV...Joe Biden.
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Level 6
Very well said
Two horrendous candidates but it isn’t even close what a better choice Trump is over Biden. You aren’t voting for Biden, he is merely a puppet of the lunatic left fringe. That’s how sad and hapless Biden is.
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Level 7
Agreed. Easy call. (It's an "easy call" b/c of the Left, but they don't see they're doing it to...
...themselves.
Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.-
Level 8
See I think it’s an easy call the other way. Orange is completely unfit morally, temperament wise,
and political belief system wise. He is a threat to the nation. Biden can be a bumbler and a stumbler. He’s also too old, and more left than I like, but he’s light years better than the alternative.
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Level 9
Body of work
I’ll take what Trump did in four years any day compared to Biden’s puppet incompetence. It’s not even Biden driving the boat. It’s his handlers.
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Level 10
You need to watch the State of the Union speech…JB’s ad hoc jousting
with GOP Congresspersons belies your made up meme…undeniable evidence that he’s in charge and doing his job very well.
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Level 9
I think the GOP and the DNC are driving the Ford Constitution towards the cliff.
I think we need someone to stop the spending...and pull the wheel of the car to the right or the left.
Is Trump the one? Maybe not. But no mainstream GOP or DNC candidate will turn the wheel away from the cliff, so it seems worth the risk.
Plus, it's not like we haven't seen him in office before. None of the horror stories they tell of Trump happened during the first presidency, so what makes anyone think that crazy things will happen the second go-round?
Biden is a non-issue. He is not in charge. So, criticisms of him are actually irrelevant to the election. I'm not sure who is actually president when he is president. He is a shell, and not actually running the country. I do think his handlers have insane views of the country, and may actually support Iran and Hamas (White House walkouts, calls for restraint that they couldn't justify for the US, etc.). Crazy stuff.
Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.-
Level 10
A multitude of former Cabinet members, Aides and Congressional Leaders saw DJT perform already....
they are vociferous in their desire to see that he doesn't return...not sure where you get your 'inside info' on him...sounds like stuff that an irresponsible person who could care less about this country would say.
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Level 6
I have more than a few friends that feel the same way which is why I don’t lump all into that
category. You defend him more than I think you need to but you could say the same about me with Biden, whom I have never been a big fan of. I don’t think I have ever said you are a cultist. You are smarter than that in my book.
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Level 1
Why is it not empathy to encourage these people to seek help instead of acting out?
Self mutilation is masochism... and encouraging it is sadism.
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Level 2
Because the Alphabet Mafia has aggressively claimed them as part of their "community."
Ergo, if you describe this obvious mental illness as anything other than a physical involuntary reality, then you're bigoted towards all of them.
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Level 3
And the Left denies that treatment. Shameful.
(no message)Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.
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Level 1
I cannot.Some of the worst running form I have ever seen, but they still won.
(no message)Dead-eye Pete with 20 pounds of swingin' meat.-
Level 2
They lost. He won.
(no message)Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.-
Level 3
In this case, he is "they" and the women are the "she."
(no message)Dead-eye Pete with 20 pounds of swingin' meat.-
Level 4
Makes perfect sense...to any person who has difficulty perceiving reality.
(no message)Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.
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Level 1
I agree with Donna De Varona's perspective on this issue...not just for swimming, but all sports
women compete in...as she says...‘It’s Complicated and People Don’t Like Complicated’...e.g. it's not enough to reduce one's testosterone level...in swimming for example, if the trans person has already benefitted from a puberty growth spurt in size and muscle, they have an advantage, so 'Timing' matters...and one blanket ruling does not cover all competitors.
None of this, btw, is any justification for marginalizing and ignoring the genuine needs of trans persons...Donna agrees with this as well.
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Level 2
Except it's not actually complicated: compete as the sex assigned at birth.
A male assigned at birth competing against females assigned at birth is no less absurd than an 18 year old identifying as a U14.
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Level 3
Read more...especially what Donna De Varona has to say about this...
...and what the American Psychiatric Association says, as well.
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Level 4
Why do you keep repeating this? De Varona says it's "nuanced" and "complicated"...
TakethetrainKnute 35869 postsFine. Until you can PERFECTLY account for AND perfectly adjust for the muscular, skeletal and hormonal advantages that biological males have over biological females, a responsible society errs on the side of protecting the actual females out of fundamental fairness, if nothing else.
That is the exact opposite of what the video in the original post shows...
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Level 5
It's okay to read what others have to say...it's call "Critical Thinking"...don't be afraid to be
Open Minded...I understand that a lot of people think this issue is "Binary" and simple...it's not, as attested to by the American Psychiatric Association, among many others. Trans people ARE people...they need help and support, hopefully from everyone in this country...try not to make their lives any more difficult.
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Level 6
We have the Special Olympics, we can have the Trans Olympics as well (dominated by men).
Why are you intent on destroying women's sports?
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Level 7
Can people who erroneously but strongly believe they're handicapped compete in the Special Olympics?
TakethetrainKnute 35869 posts(no message) -
Level 7
I agree with Ms De Varona's position...read what she has to say...and she definitely is not
campaigning to destroy women's sports ;-).
Try to back off on the "Trans Hate", if even just a little...
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Level 8
This is not even what's good for trans people, that's the pathological aspect.
I love all humans, trans or otherwise. And that's why the identity ideology that you and your ilk profess is so offensive.
Your "solutions" only exacerbate the angst, envy and resentment which are precursors to societal collapse.
And when society collapses, who do you think is going to have it the worst?
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Level 9
Can you be a bit more vague?...how about citing Ms De Varona's statements and commenting on them.
(no message)-
Level 10
How about some critical thinking on your part.
Mine was a response to your lame assertion that any criticism of this obvious stupidity is driven by trans hatred.
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Level 11
Any hatred is due to a lack of understanding and empathy...read more about the causes of GD
that are being studied, and try thinking of those trans persons as fellow human beings needing respect and dignity as they...and their professional care teams endeavor to make their lives more joyous and less troublesome...think you can do that?
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Level 6
Nonsensical response per usual. "Trans people are people". I addressed what De Varona had to say
TakethetrainKnute 35869 posts...and how it relates to competition AND to the specific example that started this conversation. You have not nor have you even attempted to. You just invoke her name and that things are "complicated".
You've now wandered off (purposefully) to some other discussion of your own. This is a technique that you employ a lot. One of many.
It is done by design and has NOTHING at all to do with "Critical Thinking"...which you, of course, know.Stop being unfair to women in competition.
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Level 7
This is beginning to get exasperating...Ms De Varona...AND myself...agree that allowing ALL Trans
athletes to compete against cisgender women is NOT the right solution...BUT, in the interest of FAIRNESS to the Transgender community, there needs to be more discussion on the issue by the sports organizations on how determinations are made...i.e. it's COMPLICATED and requires an open mind...as well as a degree of empathy for the Trans persons involved...thus far, I'm seeing NONE of that from too many in this country...as well as this board.
Very reminiscent of the old days when some people referred to "Special Needs" kids as "Retards" without any thought or empathy...sadly, that mentality still exists.
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Level 8
Beginning? Among other things you are misrepresenting Ms. de Varona's position as it would relate
TakethetrainKnute 35869 posts...to the example in the original post.
"Donna de Varona, a two-time Olympic gold medalist in swimming and a member of the Women’s Sports Policy Working Group, said her hope is to find a “nuanced approach” to finding space for transgender athletes while allowing for Title IX to make sure girls and women have “fairness, opportunity, and safety.”
Do you think the race above "made sure" of "fairness, opportunity, and safety." to the girls/young women involved. This is central to de Varona's premise.
Insure those things...(which you can not do unless you do what I offered)...and I'll consider what you're saying somewhat more seriously. You are patently NOT interested in the "fairness, opportunity and safety" of women as de Varona thankfully is.
Exasperating is having someone who is fundamentally devious and dishonest try to hold up "critical thinking" as a sword...
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Level 9
You're not 'listening'...i've said repeatedly that I agree with Ms De Varona's position...which you
accept...why do you try to assert that I don't?...that's the exasperating part.
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Level 10
You are a vortex of wasted time. Saying it's "complicated" and discussing research on Gender
TakethetrainKnute 35869 postsDysphoria has nothing at all to do with the unfairness that is playing out for women in athletic competition. Men can live as women if they wish. Competing as women should not be allowed.
It is offensive to pretend something is complicated that is not. Lia Thomas competing as a woman should have been stopped. What happened above should have been stopped.
It was fundamentally unfair to the women involved.
de Varona's position (and yours apparently) is nice on paper. "Hey, it's complicated and we need to consider the trans person."
Consider all you like, as I said above...practically, competition can't ("should never" since it's already happening despite your and de Varona's pie in the sky position) be allowed until you can INSURE that there is zero competitive advantage for the chemically (physically?) altered biological male.
That is what is right under de Varona's premise. When do you think that will be? How would anybody truly know? AI going to make the determination for us? What should be done until then?
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Level 11
Don't forget that I'm repeating the words of an Olympic Swimming Champion who is all-in on seeing
that women's sports are conducted fairly...so, when you hear the words "It's complicated", the original author is Ms De Varona...not me...and the complication arises from the serious investigations that are on-going (e.g. hormonal imbalances), which she understands, but you refuse to investigate.
As for my position, read the totality of this thread.
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Level 12
Yawn. No one has forgotten that you're repeating de Varona's position...without fully accounting
TakethetrainKnute 35869 posts...for an important part of it.
"...while allowing for Title IX to make sure girls and women have “fairness, opportunity, and safety.”
While the issue of gender confusion is a complicated one...fairness in competition is not.
You read what I posted above and what fairness would demand. Allowing biological men to compete now (and until the parameters I've already laid out for you are met) is patently unfair and demonstrably and visibly wrong. Yet common sense is silenced in a post-Floyd world...with respect to this issue...under some bizarre new ethos.
(Separately...de Varona is a product of Southern California and the broadcasting and entertainment community.. While an ultra-elite FEMALE athlete, she competed in two Olympics as a teenager and retired in 1964 at the ripe old age of 17. She then immediately began a career in LA in broadcasting and entertainment for 50 years+. Her sister is an actress and director. She has a long history as an activist for women in sports but was out of competition long before anyone would ever dream of letting a biological man compete in her sport. As a young teenager, the only one who could routinely beat her in her sport would have been a biological male. Had she experienced that and had it impacted her Olympic dreams...I would give her position more weight. As it is though, when properly weighting for fairness to women (per de Varona), allowing biological men to compete against them is not "complicated"...except as deliberately misapplied by you).
Per usual, have grown tired of repeating myself to someone who consciously and purposefully pretends to misunderstand. (Yet another consistent tactic from your playbook.)
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Level 13
If you'd read my posts you'd know that I do not support allowing trans women to compete
against cisgender women until there is sufficient screening to ensure that competitions are fair. Once a trans woman has gone through puberty, from what I've read thus far, it's no longer a possibility (e.g. Lia Thomas), and...as with Ms De Varona...I'm in favor of separate competitions for those people...so, basically, we are in agreement.
In the case of those who have not yet reached puberty, more discussion is needed...note that Gender Dysphoria is typically diagnosed by age 7, so in the interests of those kids' present and future mental health (including the avoidance of suicides) demands such consideration.
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Level 14
And now we arrive at your real agenda, unsurprisingly.
You disgusting people just keep probing for a justification or merely an avenue to start mutilating kids at a young age.
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Level 8
It's only complicated because you're making it complicated.
And it has nothing to do with 'cis' and has everything to do with biology.
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Level 9
Here's an overview of some of the research that has been conducted wrt Gender Dysphoria...
...especially this study...
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Gender incongruence among twinsIn 2013, a twin study combined a survey of pairs of twins where one or both had undergone, or had plans and medical approval to undergo, gender transition, with a literature review of published reports of transgender twins. The study found that one third of identical twin pairs in the sample were both transgender: 13 of 39 (33%) monozygotic or identical pairs of assigned males and 8 of 35 (22.8%) pairs of assigned females. Among dizygotic or genetically non-identical twin pairs, there was only 1 of 38 (2.6%) pairs where both twins were trans.[10] The significant percentage of identical twin pairs in which both twins are trans and the virtual absence of dizygotic twins (raised in the same family at the same time) in which both were trans would provide evidence that transgender identity is significantly influenced by genetics if both sets were raised in different families.[10]
---------------------It's complicated...
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_gender_incongruence
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Level 9
You're ignoring a great deal of research that forms the basis for the current diagnosis and
treatment of Gender Dysphoria, Cheeks...how do you manage to get around that?...
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Level 5
Then you'll appreciate the opinion of true scientific professionals on this issue
...from the attached statement by the American Psychiatric Association...
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It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder.
-------------------Link: https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/Psychiatrists/Practice/DSM/APA_DSM-5-Gender-Dysphoria.pdf
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Level 6
Does this have something at all to do with competitive fairness? You, of course, know the answer.
TakethetrainKnute 35869 posts(no message)-
Level 7
That is the point. There is a clear biological advantage.
No matter how you look at the trans issue, that should preclude them from participating against biological women in sporting events.
It also should be embarrassing because they obviously couldn’t compete against their biological equals.
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Level 2
If someone tells you they can see with their ears and hear with their eyes is that mental illness?
Do you believe there is such a thing as mental illness and how do you define it?
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Level 3
The same professionals who treated you have developed protocols for Gender Dysphoria...
trust them.
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Level 4
The modern psychiatric industry is in denial of the etiology of mental illness.
Almost none of them have ever opened up their own psyches AND it's much more lucrative to treat with drugs and soft-counseling.
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Level 2
Have you, personally, ever competed at anything at a high level?
BTW, How many biological women are winning men's events?
Biological males have advantages.
Go back to playing in a local co-ed league.
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Level 3
I'm sure jimbasil has an opening as relief
pitcher on his coed team. Jim. However. Will not give up the starting role without a cat fight
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Level 3
Stick to the issue...read what Donna De Varona has to say about it...in essence, she's advocating
for separate competitions in cases where there is no, or insufficient, testosterone suppression...but feel free to get your BP elevated over me as well, if you wish...
Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/04/15/transgender-athletes-womens-sports-title-ix/
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Level 4
Stick to the issue? The issue is whether biological males should compete in women's Track and Field
They should not. Period.
Nor should they compete in Swimming.
Your personal evasion is telling. Are you possibly ashamed of your athleticism?
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Level 5
It's not about me...it's about Trans Athletes...read what Donna De Varona has to say...as well as
the American Psychiatric Association, when it comes to understanding Gender Dysphoria.
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Level 7
Once more...read what she has to say...you'll learn stuff you currently are unaware of...
I'll also repeat...I do not favor a blanket acceptance of all Trans competitors without adequate "Screening"...and until such time as that happens, those Trans athletes should be afforded separate competitions apart from 'cisgender' athletes...while concerted efforts are expended to reach those screening criteria. I believe this is Ms De Varona's opinion as well.
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Level 9
She...and I...agree that without much better screening, Trans athletes should not be competing with
women...however, she is in favor of more discussion about how to do that screening. As I recall from other reports, she might be in favor of trans kids competing before puberty, since most cases of GD are diagnosed before puberty...then, they could take REVERSIBLE puberty blockers to pass a good screening evaluation and continue to compete...if they don't want to do that, they would have to give up those competitions...that's an option that ensures no unfair physical advantage.
Sound like a reasonable solution for all involved?
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Level 10
Donna and you are both quacks on this issue.
No mental health nor scientific expertise whatsoever.
In your case no athletic experience.
Neither of you have any gravitas.
End of discussion.
Literally.
I won’t waste another post watching you chase your tail.
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Level 1
We're told that this isn't that big of a deal. It's not happening all that much.
(no message)I hold the record for most deleted posts. +150. Favorite posters must be protected! -
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End of conversation