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Any thoughts on "The secret history of the war in Ukraine" in the NYT?

Author: Iggle (12617 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 7:50 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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Just a normal exercise of insiders (US Intelligence Community) making sure the other guys (Ukrainian Generals) get blamed for the failure?

Anyone concerned about how deep our involvement was?


Link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/03/29/world/europe/us-ukraine-military-war-wiesbaden.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

Replies to: Any thoughts on "The secret history of the war in Ukraine" in the NYT?


Thread Level: 2

The War was all aboy

Author: lmcdonald (1275 Posts - Joined: Sep 9, 2020)

Posted at 11:49 am on Apr 1, 2025
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

Re: The War was all about NATO expansion which the Russian were promised wouldn't happen

Author: lmcdonald (1275 Posts - Joined: Sep 9, 2020)

Posted at 11:50 am on Apr 1, 2025
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(no message)

Thread Level: 4

Utter Bullshit. There were no plans for Ukraine to join NATO. Russian propaganda spouter.

Author: Frank L (64681 Posts - Joined: Sep 20, 2007)

Posted at 12:02 pm on Apr 1, 2025
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(no message)

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 2

Fantastic reporting. And I didn’t read it as blaming the Ukrainians

Author: Chris94 (36755 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:01 am on Apr 1, 2025
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It was more interesting in showing the tension in the US between helping them and avoiding escalation, which has always been the #1 US interest.

And it should end any doubt about just how superior the US military is compared to the hapless Russians. Which Putin surely knows.

Putin failed because the US helped the Ukrainians. He will not stop the attack if he believes that help is going to end.

The path only way to get peace is to make Putin understand that he can’t win.


Thread Level: 2

Conor posted this at 7:31 ET this morning...got 8 downvotes...let's see how you do ;-)

Author: TyroneIrish (20446 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)

Posted at 9:21 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

Better so far

Author: Iggle (12617 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 9:50 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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What was Conors conclusion?

Thread Level: 4

You are mistaken. That was yesterday.

Author: Iggle (12617 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 10:06 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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I see that Conor fully supports the IC “Pro’s” who are currently torpedoing the reputations of their Ukrainian clients.

Thread Level: 5

Sorry about that...but you don't seem to have read much of the article...and certainly not the

Author: TyroneIrish (20446 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)

Posted at 11:51 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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last section...which concludes with these paragraphs...
--------------------
So much had changed since General Donahue left two years before. But when it came to the raw question of territory, not much had changed. In the war’s first year, with Wiesbaden’s help, the Ukrainians had seized the upper hand, winning back more than half of the land lost after the 2022 invasion. Now, they were fighting over tiny slivers of ground in the east (and in Kursk).

One of General Donahue’s main objectives in Wiesbaden, according to a Pentagon official, would be to fortify the brotherhood and breathe new life into the machine — to stem, perhaps even push back, the Russian advance. (In the weeks that followed, with Wiesbaden providing points of interest and coordinates, the Russian march toward Pokrovsk would slow, and in some areas in the east, the Ukrainians would make gains. But in southwest Russia, as the Trump administration scaled back support, the Ukrainians would lose most of their bargaining chip, Kursk.)

In early January, Generals Donahue and Cavoli visited Kyiv to meet with General Syrsky and ensure that he agreed on plans to replenish Ukrainian brigades and shore up their lines, the Pentagon official said. From there, they traveled to Ramstein Air Base, where they met Mr. Austin for what would be the final gathering of coalition defense chiefs before everything changed.

With the doors closed to the press and public, Mr. Austin’s counterparts hailed him as the “godfather” and “architect” of the partnership that, for all its broken trust and betrayals, had sustained the Ukrainians’ defiance and hope, begun in earnest on that spring day in 2022 when Generals Donahue and Zabrodskyi first met in Wiesbaden.

Mr. Austin is a solid and stoic block of a man, but as he returned the compliments, his voice caught.

“Instead of saying farewell, let me say thank you,” he said, blinking back tears. And then added: “I wish you all success, courage and resolve. Ladies and gentlemen, carry on.”

------------------

It's pretty clear that U.S. Military and Intelligence assistance to Ukraine was effective and appreciated. It remains to be seen if the United States maintains its long established commitment to Democracy over Autocracy...in Ukraine...and at home.


Thread Level: 2

1. It's neither secret nor untold story. We all knew its a proxy war. US ran the show. We also knew

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 8:36 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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How dangerous it was/is/will be so close to a nuclear war as the red lines were broken again and again. We knew US military personnel in Ukraine. NYT admitted all of what we have been saying. They just quoted insiders evaluation of nuclear situation, i.e. from 5-10% to 50%, to make it sound more accurate and authentic. I guess it is secret only to those who read propaganda.

If I have time, I will give 2 and 3.


This message has been edited 2 time(s).

Thread Level: 3

The Ukrainians whipped your butts real good

Author: Chris94 (36755 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:02 am on Apr 1, 2025
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

While I believe Putin is a murderous savage, he isn’t stupid…

Author: Domer From Hell (16324 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:22 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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He knows that if he launched a nuke, Russia would be no more. That’s the last thing a power hungry autocrat wants.

We're all born bald baby!
Thread Level: 4

He may figure it was better than getting hung from a lamppost by piano wire.

Author: Iggle (12617 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 10:31 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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Which he probably knows is the result if he loses this.

I remember when we wondered if giving stinger missiles to Afghan fighters was too provocative. Range was, what, a mile? Here, we were sabotaging pipelines and researching targets for OUR weapons inside Russia. The American people deserved much, much, much more clarity and honesty.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 5

It’s called OPSEC…in other words clandestine operations are on a need to know basis…

Author: Domer From Hell (16324 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:40 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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There is never transparency in such matters until of course it’s declassified . Don’t hold your breath.

Oh and we have CIA, special ops operations in many different countries.


We're all born bald baby!
Thread Level: 6

Well, some people just spewed all their OPSEC to NYT reporters.

Author: Iggle (12617 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 6:53 am on Apr 1, 2025
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To serve their own interests.

Thread Level: 7

Allegedly. It could also be that the reporter read a Tom Clancy novel

Author: Domer From Hell (16324 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:36 am on Apr 1, 2025
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(no message)

We're all born bald baby!
Thread Level: 5

Clarity and Honesty? Here you go, Trump Voter.

Author: conorlarkin (21014 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:38 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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(no message)

Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/31/opinion/ukraine-putin-trump-republicans.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

The American Dream belongs to all of us. — Kamala Harris
Thread Level: 2

We didn’t do enough. Agree on the blame game though.

Author: Frank L (64681 Posts - Joined: Sep 20, 2007)

Posted at 7:57 pm on Mar 31, 2025
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(no message)

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