...home,
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When the get to Arizona or Tejas they think they've gone too far!
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going away...from my posts you have a sense of where I'm coming from...what say you?
Biden has demonstrated he had not a clue what he was doing...and his response for the first 60 days was to ignore it.
Now it's blame shifting and absurd proposals (U.S, Asylum offices throughout Latin America, Latin America radio ad campaign telling people to stay home)...
on our southern border doors than a compassionate Joe Biden. As the linked article shows, there has been severe devastation from two recent hurricanes added to an already poverty stricken, corruption and gang infested region. In my limited observation of human behavior, folks don't leave all they've ever known to travel by foot or rickety bus over a thousand miles, just because Joe Biden is a nicer guy than Donald Trump.
As I've stated earlier, if we really want 'closure' on the border issue, we need to attack the "root cause" that makes these people hit the road north...
Link: https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/24/us/border-climate-change-covid/index.html
Under Trump, Mexico was stopping people from coming. Fewer Latin Americans were choosing to come. Now, however, they are encouraged. Human trafficking is increasing...cartels making big money transporting minors to the US. The policy of not enforcing the law is working very well.
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surge in Central Americans who are being driven by crime and essentially no economic opportunities due to gangs, corruption and a couple of devastating hurricanes. It is no "Sunday Stroll" to uproot a family from Guatemala City to El Paso, Texas by crowded bus and by foot with no guarantee of a successful outcome...who does that?...just folks who are at their wit's end.
The immigrant 'petitioners'...by the thousands...have made this truly life-changing decision, and from the looks of things, they won't be the only ones as the future unfolds...unless, there's some sort of "intervention"...therein brings us back to the 'Big Dog' in this regional crisis...the USA. Our predecessors helped set up this sad situation, but regardless, we all want it to stop. The best solutions always involve addressing the "Root Cause", and you've seen a bit of what I have to say about that. Do you agree, or have a better idea?
No administration has been able to successfully tackle the situation thus far...what should this one do about it? BTW, let me know which laws are not being followed.
Link: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/28/what-we-know-about-illegal-immigration-from-mexico/
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It should be a two-way street, though. Fair is fair. We could put as many soldiers into Mexico without papers for maneuvers as Mexican citizens that cross our border without papers. Although, the Mexican government might suddenly think borders were very important.
First, though, we should drone the shit out of the cartels...treat them like enemy combatants for a while until they are broken...the cartels are no better than ISIS who burned people alive...then we can have a borderless North America.
We don't have the same issues on our much more vast Northern border. If we're going to be accused of imperialism, might as well conquer and such...
If so...I'm in.
American "Marshall Plan", as mentioned in the linked article in order to restore order and fundamentally stem the tide of immigrants and asylum seekers at our southern border?
Link: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/12/21/has-united-states-foreign-policy-central-america-fueled-migrant-crisis-donald-trump/2338489002/
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attached link is a 100% valid and accurate summary of the issue, but it seems to have a 'ring' of truth and logic. Costa Rica and Panama aren't problem areas, so just maybe, with a little intelligence and creativity, we could play a part in stabilizing the 'Northern Triangle' of the CA-4 and settle this southern border problem...would really be nice if we could get both of our parties to come together on fixing the "root cause"...
BTW, I've just read a report that our expenses in Afghanistan and Iraq are way higher (in 2019 dollars) than what the Marshall Plan cost, so if we cut a little here and there, we might find the funds for Central America without maxing out our credit card.
Link: https://www.equaltimes.org/el-salvador-guatemala-honduras-and?lang=en#.YFkenC1h01I
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with a cost analysis) and finally make a decision. Actually, your comment along the lines of 'exceptional' military involvement is an important one in my mind. Another article I read regarding comparing a Central American 'Marshall Plan' to the actual one mentions the important issue of "security' for the process. Western Europe had a long history of laws and civil structures, so a high level of confidence for all the participants was virtually assured from the get-go...not so much in Central America, so we'd have to do something along the "policing" lines (hopefully in a 'Pan American' spirit) in order to assure that the effort wasn't a 'fantasy'.
Now some are sure to say the very concept is a fantasy...I'd like to see how the "status quo" is superior to the possibility of a more stable and vibrant American hemisphere...that might even give us international leverage as China goes about its 'bidness'.
We don't have money for the 1.9T fluff plan the Dems just passed. They made no effort to cut anything. They are just printing money. And, by printing money, I mean that they are stealing money from future American generations for the current generations. A "Marshall" plan would just steal more money from future American generations and give it to current Latin American generations. I mean, sure, why not? Fuck future US generations. Who cares about my kids and your kids, and their kids. No one in DC. And no one who proposes that the US government continue with 1T+ deficits every year. But, neither party intends to stop doing that, so the only real political issue to debate is what we will do with the money we steal from future generations. OK, let's get down to it.
First and foremost, can we agree that any solution should involve enforcing the current laws right now. If Congress changes them, then enforce the new laws. That is also funny, isn't it. It is certainly not happening. The Dems like to impeach Republicans who do disregard the law, but they love Dem presidents who disregard the law. That is what makes us the same as a banana republic.
But how about this, regarding the immigration "problem":
1) Lock down the border. After all, that is the law now. Enforcing a border is the first and most basic rule of having something we call a country or a nation. In priority, it should come before any other government function. Everything else should be secondary.
2) Decrease handouts to immigrants to near nothing. Let private charities hand out bottles of water, and help people get settled. (And if this happens, I will donate to those charities.)
3) Then, start opening the border in a well regulated way. Allow anyone willing to come here who will (i) register, (ii) be subject to a background check (if possible), (iii) health screened and get all vaccination (especially covid...and if we don't have enough for Americans, they have to wait), (iv) pledge allegiance to the United States and renounce their allegiance to their previous country, (v) learn English, and (vi) work for a living. Let all those people in, regardless of race or whatever other stupid ways the liberals like to group people.
Do this, and we get hard workers, who are health screened and registered as tax payers...good people. They get to come here to a non-racist, freedom oriented country that provides them greater opportunity than their originating nation. Win-win for everyone. And the US government isn't just devaluing and handing cash out to people (thereby keeping them down) when it can't even pay its own bills.
Having said all of that, I will say this: Everything I said is a pipe dream. It will never happen. So it is easy for me to say it. No one in DC is interested in a principled way to solve the problem, because most don't think it is a problem. Rather, they think it is a great situation which provides them a way to posture every two years during election time. So, I'll just sit here, and watch them posture as they destroy the country. I certainly can't do anything about it.
I'll miss your underlying message(s) occasionally, so don't hesitate to 'straighten me out'...here goes...
>On the money issue, I hope you got the thrust of my reply...we can definitely afford the $1.9T...it's a wise move...the sooner we get back to full employment, the better (2yrs with the Stimulus vs. 4 yrs w/o)...and "The Markets" have acknowledged this, albeit with a very slight bump in the interest rate. I'd like to go further on this issue sometime later (i.e. Deficit spending).
>Marshall Plan...we're talking three small countries (Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador) that need to be stabilized from a security as well as economic sense. With the cooperation of Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama, I'm betting that we can establish a more peaceful and productive region that 'loves us' back and provides local leverage against China and Asian competitors. I'll admit there are a lot of unknowns, but as with the original Marshall Plan, it can be done...plus we're talikng about a lot fewer people to be assistaed...and don't forget, those folks wouldn't be banging on our doors anymore...sound like something worth investigating?
>Crisis at the border...yes, lots of 'petitioners' showing up (due to violence, corruption and hurricanes)...so Biden wanted a change in attitude toward them, from outright malevolence (ripping families apart...never to be seen again), to something that could be recognized as "humane"...tough to do when the infrastructure wasn't exactly put in place by the previous admin (e.g. adequate # of judges to process immigrants, facilities, etc.)...also, the refusal of Trump to concede (e.g. while promoting the "Big Lie") seriously hampered the transition for all phases of government...including immigration. Biden has shut down the border in the face of overwhelming 'demand' for entry...we'll see how he handles it from here. This current situation is akin to a 'Perfect Storm' that wan't in any way made easier by his predecessor.
>Dems impeaching Republicans...I don't see the Dems making a "Thing" of that process...the first one was for a "Quid Pro Quo" (as specifically acknowledged by Gordon Sondland under oath) by Trump to throw dirt on Biden and gain an election advantage...hard to argue that wasn't an abuse of power and impeachable. The second was for promoting a proven lie and then 'encouraging' supporters to stop the last procedural step in completion of the electoral process through violent means...(got double digit Republicans to vote Yes on that as well). To let those two violations "slide" would be negligent on the Dems part.
>"Lock Down the Border"...that's being done, albeit temporarily...we'll see how this plays out. All previous administrations have supported means to restrict entry...in fact for a period of time Obama deported many more immigrants than his predecessor...again, it remains to be seen how Biden performs.
>Decrease handouts to immigrants to near zero...not sure what's involved here...I'm sure you don't mean obviously needed humanitarian aid. BTW, relying solely on charities is 'hit or miss' and not always responsive to real needs...especially in times of recession, etc. when the charitable givers are less able to 'chip in'.
>Then open the border in a well regulated way...I guess this goes with the other point on lock down...sounds right to me...also, don't have a problem with your other recommendations. BTW, it's my experience that the vast majority of those 'illegals' are hard workers...often in physically taxing jobs (farm workers...janitorial staff, etc.) that not many Americans are clamoring to do. Anecdotally, I played golf with an exec for a company that grows strawberries...asked him what would be the effect of making all his 'illegals' legal...he estimated the price of strawberries would "Triple"...expand that to lettuce, oranges, meat products, etc., etc...."It's complicated"
This whole issue is indeed "Complicated" and challenging...but nothing we can't handle...if, we can face facts and come together for the good of the country (first).
Again, thanks for taking the time to explain your concerns...I share your frustration as well. As mentioned, I'm sure I missed a point or two, so if you wish, "educate' me...I'll listen.
>
>
>On the money issue, I hope you got the thrust of my reply...we can definitely afford the $1.9T...it's a wise move.
I disagree. It is 100% wasted money/debt. We hadn't even spent the previous stimulus. There is no reason to spend more at all...and it is on top of the $1.5T deficit we have every year. This is all totally asinine. We have wartime spending in peace time, and then we do double war time spending in a crisis. Eventually, it will come back to bite our kids. But, both parties support it, so I recognize that I'm the odd man out here. I will stop complaining about it. I just thought it was funny when you brought it up.
>Marshall Plan...
Sorry. Not buying it. Sounds like a 100% waste of money. If we are going to steal from future generations, let's start building semiconductor fabs, and restoring manufacturing jobs to America. But, we won't do that. So, again, I'm odd man out.
>Crisis at the border...yes, lots of 'petitioners' showing up (due to violence, corruption and hurricanes)...
Right...and I'm glad you put 'petitioners' in quotes. None of those reasons are legitimate reasons to seek asylum.
>...so Biden wanted a change in attitude toward them, from outright malevolence (ripping families apart...never to be seen again), to something that could be recognized as "humane"...
Yeah...sorry, but I think that is total bullshit. He has more kids in cages than Trump had. He is now encouraging people to put their kids into the human trafficking system. Biden is 100% pro-human trafficking in his behavior. He is very naive on this (to the extent he is even aware of what he is doing).
>...tough to do when the infrastructure wasn't exactly put in place by the previous admin (e.g. adequate # of judges to process immigrants, facilities, etc.)...also, the refusal of Trump to concede (e.g. while promoting the "Big Lie") seriously hampered the transition for all phases of government...including immigration. Biden has shut down the border in the face of overwhelming 'demand' for entry...we'll see how he handles it from here. This current situation is akin to a 'Perfect Storm' that wan't in any way made easier by his predecessor.
Sorry. Not buying it. 50% fabricated nonsense, and 50% rationalization. Infrastructure for what?...ignoring US immigration laws? You really wanted Trump to prepare for Biden to ignore US immigration laws, and encourage people to come? Trump did the right thing; this is all Biden's problem, because Biden wants people to ignore US laws. To the extent Biden is stopping people, he is doing it after encouraging them to come. (Remember, he wanted to take at least another 2 million people from Mexico in the debates. They are interviewing people down there, and they say they are coming because of Biden.) He is starting to bus them to small towns all over America. Mindless anti-US-law immigration policy. Grounds for impeachment, if you were honest about it.
The rest of your post is not in the realm of reality.
You say it is complicated. But real solutions are usually pretty simple. They get complicated because of politics. Trump had stopped the caravans coming by telling them there was nothing for them here. That's pretty simple. They believed him. Biden got them going again, without a plan to handle them. That's stupid...so I guess to someone like that, this would indeed be a complicated issue.
You say, "I share your frustration as well." About what? What are you frustrated about? Kids in cages generally (and encouraging more kids in cages by Bident)? Or only kids in cages when Trump was in power. Sounds like the later.
along with my thoughts...(btw, I've yet to tackle the text coloring technique tips you provided, but again, thanks)
>On the issue of being able to afford the $1.9T Stimulus.
In times of economic "trauma", government spending for 'Stimuli' is 100% proven to work...the only question is "How Much?"...we saw it work in recovering from the "Great Recession" and learned that the recovery time is lessened when the stimulus is not "short-changed".
I provided 'expert testimony' from two Business/Economics PhDs who use that training every day in their careers...the Economics PhD is a senior member of a firm that provides advice and counsel to the largest corporations in the U.S. and around the world on Global Economics, Geopolitical Risk, Comparative Industry Analysis, etc....they described the $1.9T Stimulus funding as a '1% loan for 30 years', most likely from China, Japan or the U.K...representing something on the order of 1% of our national budget per year (very doable)...also, their understanding, from professional sources, is that a return to pre-COVID economic health and performance will be hastened from 4 years to two years as a result of the Stimulus, thus enabling us to pay back the debt quicker and, not inconsequentially, make all our lives that much better sooner...businesses have had to shutter, employees are laid off, government services have lost funding, charitable organizations are suffering...you know all this...what you're not acknowledging is that we are "at war" with an unseen "enemy"...COVID-19.
Having said (repeated) all that, I have to ask...on what basis are you "not buying" this?...the figurative "Markets" have already responded favorably to the news...why are you not seeing the wisdom? I can understand a reticence to incurring large loans, but this is the type of sudden catastrophe (COVID-19) that requires such action...and btw, we're not out of the woods yet. (now I'm wishing I had the text coloration working ;-))
>re: Marshall Plan
The majority of immigrants banging on our southern doors are from the "Northern Triangle" of Central America (El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras)...those countries are not only poverty-stricken, but essentially overtaken by drug cartels that continue to service their biggest customers...yep, you guessed it...the citizens of the USA...so, it is in our own self-interest to make things right there. For our "Marshall Plan" we get 1) a dramatic reduction in immigration pressures, and 2) a healthier America, free(r) of the drug scourge. You might even see in the future, opportunities for marketing U.S. products to local countries that can now pay for those goods...i.e. an actual "ROI" for that 'Marshall Plan'...it's been done before, but if you prefer to just close your eyes and ears to what's going on about you...that's an option.
>re: Biden's border response
You make very strong accusations, but as is becoming commonplace, no supporting data or analysis...just "feelings". To help you out just a bit, I've attached a link that provides some easy to read material regarding the "What and Why" of the increased immigrant pressure on our southern border. As for children in cages...it's been common knowledge for years now that Donald Trump instituted a policy - with malice of forethought - that forcibly separated children from their parents, with no attempt at recording their whereabouts for future reunification, solely to 'discourage' immigration attempts...the children thus separated were truly kept in cages with no attempt to improve the situation...the Biden administration thus far has been overwhelmed with immigrants from the "Northern Triangle" countries...it is absolutely not separating families and is working feverishly to increase suitable housing...that wasn't available from the previous administration, even though the surging 'demand' was evident back in 2019...btw, in order to process and clear the logjam of immigrants, we need more judges...but Trump didn't see the need...just wanted a "Wall" that even his own party wouldn't fund (first two years, Trump had the WH, Senate and House...nothing to stop him).
Your comment about "Human Trafficking" and Joe Biden is not only bizarre, but seems made out of "Whole Cloth"...where on earth did you get this from?
>re: "Infrastructure"
What I'm referring to are the points I just made about housing and processing...more investment was needed even back in 2019 by the Trump administration...immigration was surging with no expectation of abating, so they should have taken action...but, predictably, with their distain for humane behavior, they didn't, thus leaving the new administration to fix it all amid a COVID crisis and even more terrorized and frightened Central Americans. Once again, I have to ask...where are you getting your "50%" pieces of "data" from?
>re: 'Simple vs. Complicated'
From Trump's POV everything is "Simple"...never mind the root cause(s) and ensure a lasting solution...just build a "Wall" and "Voila!"...problem solved!! Again, his own party wouldn't fight for it...they knew it was - to use phrasing you're familiar with - "B.S."...they never authorized a dime for it. You bring up the notion of 'politics'...I agree that's a part of this story...a convenient 'Wedge Issue' that keeps the troops...who you know will never spend a moment assessing the root causes and logical solutions...riled up for 'easy votes'. I'm not sure what business you're involved in, but I'll bet not all problems you're confronted with are "Simple"...if I'm wrong, then I'm envious.
>re: 'Frustration'
I'm not kidding...I don't like an unresolved problem like illegal immigration festering, with no evidence of collaboration to resolve it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we both are unhappy with the 'Status Quo'. If we leave 'politics' out of it, we are confronted with a economic and humanitarian challenge that tests our resolve as fellow citizens and believers in Christianity. The previous administration did absolutely nothing to bring Americans together on the issue...or treat the Central American calamity with Christ-Like empathy...it's now up to Biden's administration...and us.
Please don't feel compelled to respond "in kind" with as many words as I have...but if you do, I'll read them all. I'll say it again...I appreciate you taking the time to make this a real "forum". It is possible to have level-headed conversations with opposing viewpoints...and to actually find 'resonance points' that draw people closer.
Link: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2017/12/07/rise-in-u-s-immigrants-from-el-salvador-guatemala-and-honduras-outpaces-growth-from-elsewhere/
enough money...I've posted earlier that according to two Economics and Business PhDs in our family, the $1.9T Stimulus is essentially a 1% loan for 30 years and payment represents less than 2% of the national budget...also, they said that recent forecasts for recovery from the economic 'shock' of COVID were on the order of 4 yrs for a return to pre-COVID levels...now, with the Stimulus Bill it's 2 yrs...so it's a wise move...and 'The Markets' have responded appropriately.
As for the overall Deficit...that's a longer conversation that I'm interested in pursuing.
I'll be back for the other points you made...much appreciated...good discussion.
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but have commitments until the mid-afternoon...hopefully you don't mind continuing...if not, I understand...NP.
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