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Time after time they keep on losing.

Homemade masks, falsely claiming that the vaccine prevented spread to others (which would require specific studies to assert and which Fauci admitted did not actually exist), the 6 foot rule which "just kind of happened" per Fauci in his testimony under oath, lying and covering up about the origin of COVID at the Wuhan Lab leak,
prolonged and unnecessary school shut downs.
Giving the vaccine to unindicated patient populations (healthy children) where the risk of the vaccine outweighed the benefit of COVID prevention....and no studies or data to suggest that the decision was necessary or prudent.
Allowing malls to reopen but not churches.
Letting the teachers union literally write the recommendation guidelines for the CDC/FDA - taking the unions demands verbatim and changing their recommendations to what they wanted.
etc etc etc


and then they used their govt power to squelch all opposition.

Shameful.

And these bastards just made it incredibly hard to convince many patients to get a COVID vaccine as well as many other important vaccines such as measles.

Never forget. The Left are the real fascists. They did it for power and to push their political agenda

And you keep distorting facts. True, Trump did not replenish the N95 mask and ventilator supply but you time and time again fail to acknowledge that supplies were almost exhausted early in Obama's first term and Obama had MUCH LONGER to replenish than Trump did but failed to do so. Yet, since under your self-delusion that Democrats are perfect people you have to follow the weird code of never criticize your own.

You cannot be serious also about closing schools was a good thing even in retrospect. You also keep talking about that stupid Massachusetts school mask "study" while NOT ONCE addressing contradictory data from other school systems in Georgia and South Carolina as I repeatedly have pointed out to you. No, you just ignore them because it ruins your narrative. Even a real professor of epidemiology, Vinay Prassad, noted the flaws in your vaunted study...do you know more than he does about epidemiology, too?

Wuhan lab was the source of the virus. No doubt. Your hero the Great Fauchino knew this but took steps to shift the narrative. We all know by now logical thinking escapes you, but again, the odds the virus originated naturally in the same exact location as a lab studying exact same coronavirus is literally mathematically impossible. And yet you can't see that. Wow.

You need to start listening to Baron instead of pretending you know more than he does.

I don't have time for such people. Does anyone really read his posts anymore, anyways?. Everyone knows his modus operandi.

I suppose we may owe him a thank you because he unintentionally pushed people away from his cause and did his small part to help get Trump get elected

Open Forum debates in order to find and demonstrate who is right and who is wrong in front of everyone who participates here. If you're truly confident in your positions, one would think you'd relish the opportunity to show everyone how right you are...instead, you make up a bogus excuse for not engaging...and not having to defend those positions. That's a clear example of "Intellectual Dishonesty"...you can do better...step up to the plate and debate.

If Dr. Vinay Prassad, a real epidemiology professor at a real medical school, says the Massachusetts mask study has turned out to be garbage, I'm going to take him a lot more seriously than a keyboard Google medical "expert."

I’d just walk away. He is equally disingenuous about the Catholic Church as he is with medicine (and he is neither a Catholic nor a doctor).
If I were you, I would just wish him well and walk away. At this stage, nobody who thinks for themselves takes his comments seriously.
Thanks for your work in shining the light of truth at him.

people don't comply...and he's not helping. He cites problems with RCTs of mask wearing due to non-compliance affecting the results, which is why the NEJM Study of School District mandates is so meaningful...i.e. Compliance was assured for all students, teachers and staff during each school day...and the results, with "Difference in Difference" analysis methodology being employed showed definitive benefits from mask wearing vs. those who didn't.

Masking doesn't harm anyone, and it sure doesn't increase the likelihood of getting infected...so there's no good reason for not wearing high quality masks, like N95/KN95 respirators if they're available....or Surgical, and even Cloth Masks when the best aren't available in the midst of a raging pandemic.

N.B....Baron has posted that during the pandemic, He...his Staff...and Patients ALL wore masks during the pandemic.

btw, I've attached another paper explaining the value of Masking during an airborne pathogen pandemic.


Link: https://gh.bmj.com/content/5/5/e002819

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Florida along with MANY other states...do some research before posting. The only debate is when and how to re-open them.

As for the N95 masks, Obama actually used them for the H1N1 Flu epidemic...depleting ~75% of the stock...then Congress (e.g. Mitch McConnell) blocked virtually all of Barack's budget requests. Trump had 3 years...and an Obama Admin "Pandemic Preparedness Plan" to warn him of the need for those masks...but he paid no attention to it and didn't lift a finger to resupply them.

Had the source of COVID been discovered it would have been front page news and in all the medical journals...that hasn't happened, so stop fantasizing.

None of what I posted requires an MD...Baron was dead wrong on the basic facts presented in both the MIT and NEJM Studies...I can provide you with a walk through of the threads proving it if you'd like...even Jakers had to admit Baron was wrong.

BTW, do you now understand that the 2 Boston Area School Districts that kept using masks comprised nearly 20% of all Students and Staff in the NEJM Study?...and that the authors, who are experts in using statistics assessed a 95% C.I. to their findings...i.e. solid results. An apology from you would be nice.

Baron has disgraced himself and embarrassed the Medical profession with his inaccurate and misleading posts...the proof is in the UHND archives. While he obviously doesn't care, you should.

Of course schools everywhere closed in panic, but once they reopened they either had mask mandates or they didn't. So you choose to pretend the data from Georgia and South Carolina don't exist. The only doctor ability you have is a spin doctor.

The authors might have had at the time 95% confidence in their study which means at the time there was a 5% chance they were wrong, something you also ignore. And now, if Dr. Vinay Prassad, a real professor of epidemiology at a real medical school is correct, that 5% is now close to 100% as time went on.

Finally, you seen to be absolutely clueless as to the power of groupthink. The mainstream media are nothing but a bunch of sheep. Remember when the Democrats put out the talking point of George W. Bush lacking "gravitas," and the mainstream media ran with that word for a couple of weeks? Same thing with the origin of Covid. I've also repeatedly pointed out to you oftentimes "experts" really lack the logical abilities to know how to use their knowledge. I seriously doubt anyone still wondering about the origin of Covid has stopped to say, wait a minute, the odds of the virus originating naturally in the exact same city housing a lab studying the exact same coronavirus have to be astronomically impossible. Yes, that's how stupid egghead "experts" can be.

temporary morgues for COVID deaths?…you bet there was Panic…and for good reason…we had no vaccines to defend us, so we needed to use every means available…hand washing…distancing…and face masks…even hand made cloth versions until N95 overpowered replenished. That’s why Schools were closed…I.e. very rational and reasonable.

What isn’t rational or reasonable is betting on 5% instead of 95% confidence levels.

Stop embarrassing yourself while trying to defend Baron’s mistakes. Let him be a man and stand up for himself..

P.S. Regarding the search for COVID-19's origin...see the linked article from 2006 addressing the SARS-CoV (1) outbreak in China...due to zoonotic transfer in a Wet Market. What are the odds that the same process wouldn't result in SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) at the huge Wuhan Wet Market?...which, btw, the Chinese government scrubbed down after removing all the animals there before any outsiders could inspect it.


Link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7141584/

>Homemade Masks...When you don't have N95/KN95 masks available for the general public...thanks to DJT ignoring the Obama Admin's "Pandemic Preparedness Plan" and not doing anything to replenish our Strategic National Stockpile (SNS) of items like Respirators for his 3 years in office before the COVID-19 pandemic...you do whatever you can to allow citizens to shop for critical items and services, like Groceries, Hospitals and Doctors' Offices...even if it means creating cloth masks...so as to mitigate (i.e. lessen) the risk of contracting that potentially life-threatening disease.

Note that Baron's own posting of an MIT Study on masking advocated...with typical MIT scholarly analysis...for the use of masks in indoor settings (e.g. Schools and Nursing Homes)...be they Cloth, Surgical, or N95/KN95 quality...the only distinctions be the recommended amount of time spent in an enclosure, depending on ventilation, spacing and numbers of people therein. Yet Baron somehow interpreted the study as recommending 'Against Masking'...go figure.

Then there's the the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) Study of Boston School Districts, where 2 Districts (Comprising nearly 20% of all students and staff in the Study) continued to wear masks and saw markedly fewer COVID-19 cases than the other Districts who stopped mandating masks...which Baron, for some reason, thought was just an Opinion Piece without any data whatsoever. Fortunately, I was able to point out to him how to find the data and rigorous analysis that used the stringent "Difference in Difference" methodology. Sadly, Baron "Ignored" my evidence and never acknowledged the correction...although another poster who sided with BVZ challenged me, and ended up with the phrase "Fair Enough", indicating acceptance that I was right and Baron was wrong.

>Vaccine prevention of COVID-19 spread...the initial versions of Pfizer and Moderna's mRNA vaccines had Phase III human trial effectiveness results of 94-95%...which would allow 'Herd Immunity' if over 70% of the population were fully vaccinated, given the Transmissibility Rating for SARS-CoV-2. No one ever claimed that the mRNA vaccines were 100% effective, but as you can see, if the Biden admin were able to get 70+% of the population to take those extremely safe vaccines...which Baron and his Family did...it would have certainly saved many more lives. Unfortunately, a great deal of misinformation helped keep that objective from being achieved. With the proven effectiveness and safety of the mRNA vaccines and the Danger from COVID-19, Federal and Private Mandates were sound and appropriate means for achieving the desired Herd Immunity as quickly as possible. Again, sadly, the virus mutated and vaccination rates didn't rise to the needed levels.

>6 Foot Rule...During a pandemic, people still need to feed themselves and shop for critical items as well as services...therefore they will gather in large numbers in close proximity to each other, which works in favor of the virus. Thus, in very short order, guidance is needed...based on the Transmissibility of the virus (R0 number)...that attempts to strike a balance between the need for food & services and distancing in closed places. Since this was a brand new virus with very little understanding of it...and NO TIME to conduct a rigorous study, a "Seat of the Pants" recommendation was made for "6 Feet" between persons. One should think about how many people would end up getting infected while one, or more, studies were conducted in order to arrive at the 'Optimal' distancing of 3, 6, 10, 20, 50 feet. Anyone who would insist on such studies under such deadly conditions would be a candidate for Psychiatric Analysis...especially someone with an MD license.

>Wuhan Lab Leak...It is a well known fact that no one has yet produced verifiable evidence of SARS-CoV-2's origin...that takes rigorous Microbiological data and analysis...the only people who would have such information live in the PRC, and they're not talking...so anyone who asserts that the virus definitely originated in, or came from, the Wuhan Lab is lying...especially anyone with an MD degree.

>School Shutdowns...Once COVID-19 was found to be a worldwide pandemic...and there were no primary weapons (vaccines) available to defeat it...it was sound medical practice to enforce lockdowns and school closures. Once vaccines were available, for protection of Teachers and Staff, as well as Children who could still transmit the disease to family members and other vulnerable people they might come in contact with, then...after implementing helpful room ventilation, spacing measures and Masking(see MIT and NEJM Studies) School Districts could entertain opening their classrooms...which they did, pending reviews. Each pathogen is different, so a hard and fast determination of duration for ALL epidemics/pandemics is not possible...also, to assert that Schools NEVER close regardless of the biology involved, is irrational and potentially deadly.

>Vaccines for 'Unindicated' or Healthy Children...First off many "Unindicated" persons, or assumedly healthy children, may ACTUALLY be Vulnerable to the disease...but ALL persons are potential spreaders of the disease, therefore it is Prudent to have all persons, over a given age, vaccinated...for the Benefit of ALL...with the proviso of medically verified contraindications for the vaccine being reasons for not getting vaccinated.

>Not allowing Churches to be open...While Store shopping is necessary for human habitation (Groceries, Medications, Clothing...etc.), opening of Churches where people assemble shoulder to shoulder, and emit copious amounts of potentially disease laden aerosols while singing hymns during a known pandemic, borders on the insane. No more need be said...besides, it's in the best interest of Churches to not unnecessarily reduce the numbers of Faithful Congregants.

>Teachers Unions...Teachers are at much higher risk of bad outcomes from COVID infections, and each infected Teacher sidelined affects a significant number students...they have reason to be heard when it comes to this issue. By signing up to be Teachers they are clearly dedicated to serving the best interests of their students, and to imply that they are "villains" in this situation is to say the least, "Inappropriate". Now, with the benefit of recent experience, there hopefully will be a "meeting of the minds" between Teachers, School Boards...and Parents...on how best to deal with another pandemic, which is not unreasonable to expect.

>Finally, based on the shameful lack of quality exhibited lately in Trump's HHS selections (e.g. RFK Jr....Casey Means...etc.) we can be thankful that the Biden administration took over the management of COVID-19 when we needed that reliance on Science, Expertise and Intelligence.

It's sad to witness a Notre Dame Alum and MD choose Politics over sound Medicine...it is what it is.

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...the only debate is when and how to re-open...btw, vaccine availability and effectiveness have a lot to do with it.

Link: https://www.edweek.org/leadership/map-coronavirus-and-school-closures-in-2019-2020/2020/03

Remote learning was a massive failure for virtually every school level below the upper classes of high school. Particularly worthless for elementary school kids, which is a critical learning time in kids' lives. It was not "re-opening" in any honest sense of the word.

Some states decided on re-opening public schools in the fall of 2020 with additional safety measures in place: Temperature screening at the entrance, spacing out desks (social disancing), and regular testing/tracing for students involved in sports. Minimizing or eliminating large assemblies/gatherings. Some required masks for some or part of the school day activities. Virtually all of these schools did just fine. And the benefit to students went without saying.

Others, of course, forced remote for much longer (late fall of 2020). I'm sure you'll defend that in some knee-jerk fashion, but of course it was idiotic.

honest to God Panic in the early days of COVID-19, and virtually every state shut down their schools...and did the best they could to make up for the loss of in-person learning.

Looking to the future, we need to a) do the best we can to 'Get Out iin Front' of any potential pathogen by doing research in likely places for them to evolve...like CHINA and parts of Africa...b) Cooperate with other countries on such research and analysis of emerging threats...c) keep our Strategic National Supplies stocked...etc.

Got to go right now...but if some pathogen like the grotesque Ebola virus comes to the U.S. you'd better believe NO PARENT will want their kids in school.

I don't know anyone who reasonably disagreed with closing down for the rest of the 2019-2020 school year after March. There were essentially only 2 months left, and there was uncertainty about the best approaches. By summer, however, there was plenty of information.

Fatality Rate for COVID was essentially zero for ages 0-19. Kids fared better with COVID than they did with the flu. You didn't even get to 0.1% I.F.R. until you got to age 50-plus. Schools should have been re-opened in the fall. We knew what precautions were effective. This wasn't "hindsight 2 years later."

...that's it for the moment...don't want to overload you with real concerns that bear on the decision to open school classrooms.

If your position is that schools should have remained closed until everyone was vaccinated (January 2021 at the earliest, since 2 shots were required at the time), there is zero point in speaking further with you on this topic. You're simply too stupid to engage with on the topic.

B.T.W., comparing COVID -- a coronavirus like the seasonal flu -- to "Ebola" makes this a worthless discussion to have with you.

serious risk...Teachers, School Staff and their family members...Students' family members...hospitals all over the U.S. were being overwhelmed with cases (Idaho, Texas...)...to put more people at risk during that period would be foolish, so closures continued into the 2020/2021 school year. After that, it becomes a challenge for localities to pay close attention to the number of cases among their citizens before loosening restrictions...thus leading to even longer school closures. Hopefully, in the future we'll invest in more Public Health infrastructure...but the way Trump is acting these days, that's not a reasonable expectation.

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You know this yet constantly respond to him. This says a lot about your mental health issues.

when he steps out of line and posts false or misleading content...which is virtually all the time ;-)

This is an Open Forum...if he wants to make up bogus reasons for avoiding the truth, that doesn't stop me from telling it. Heck, you and I clearly don't agree on much, if anything, but you won't see me hiding from you...ever. Baron is nothing more than a coward.

Hope for, in half the time it would typically take, thus saving millions of lives…only to be disparaged by fools who are now in charge of the nation’s health systems…all thanks to fools like yourself.

Why can’t you ever stay on topic?

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Your brain is scrambled eggs. You have zero self awareness.

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for...in record time...in the face of deadly global pandemic, and idiots, like Baron, perpetuate harmful misinformation. We have a long road ahead of us to restore sanity and trust in our outstanding medical institutions.

Hopefully, our FBI at that time opened an investigation of our President who knowingly lied to the American people about the true threat of COVID-19...he certainly deserved it then...and now...for allowing this "Hit" on the Biden administration for doing what needed to be done to save American lives.


Link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9114791/

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