Baron in response to your post below regarding chain of command and such…
I agree that the military must abide by their orders from their chain of command. Conor was right in the case of unlawful orders, however, the orders Trump has given have not been deemed unlawful by the courts.
Our soldiers, Marines, and citizen soldiers are doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. Sometimes those jobs can seem blurred, but they have to drive on no matter what.
I’m interested in hearing the results of the law suit(s).
Replies to: Baron in response to your post below regarding chain of command and such…
Let's break this down....
1) Conor specifically said that he would not follow THESE orders from the chain of command. If he were still active and did this, do you agree that he should be brought up for court martial?
2) Your answer implies that you need confirmation on your orders from above from a local federal judge. How on earth is that right or even practical? Are we paralyzed until you have been satisfied? What authority should a local federal judge have over the CIC wrt management of troops? Do you disobey the order if the local judge of opposite political persuasion blocks the POTUS order while the case is appealed to higher courts? (That delay could prove incredibly costly, and remember you are talking about doing this sort of thing when a Dem is POTUS and there are conservative military members as well).
3) The Left is showing how dangerous TDS really is. They are encouraging soldiers to make their own decisions based on their politics. It is absurd that they imply that Trump would make a morally ambiguous order but that "this one is ok". It's insulting and wrong.
An immoral order such as exterminating Jewish civilians is an obvious moral decision. Protecting citizens from violent invaders while allowing other branches of service (ICE) to enforce the laws of this land is not.
There was a recent election in which the immigration issue was the centerpiece issue. The American electorate indicated its' majority will. Any soldier who remains in the military must be willing to protect it's citizens and adhere to the law of the land.
Conor's view leads to chaos. The fact that he was a marine is an embarrassment to the branch.
I recall him spewing venom against Edward Snowden for his security breach, yet Snowden was making exactly the sort of personal value judgment as conor is making here...and Snowden wasn't even in the military. There is no moral ambiguity here.
This is the scene that Trump is sending troops into in order to protect our citizens. How the fuck (pardon my French) is this morally ambiguous?!
Addendum: I agreed with prosecuting Snowden, and i would most certainly agree with a court martial hearing for conor.
Here’s my response…
1. I would follow my orders from my superiors as long as they’re deemed lawful orders. The orders in question thus far are lawful orders and should be followed.
2. The reason I’m in a wait and see stance is because the deployment of the NG and active duty marines may have been an over reach by the president. This is why I’m interested in hearing the court ruling.
3. I’m all for deporting illegals especially illegal criminals. The tactics by ICE have inflamed some citizens. That’s the problem.
Also, I’m not sure that federalizing the NG was needed. The police are the ones arresting the violent offenders. All of which should be jailed and prosecuted. The riots are isolated in a small part of downtown…roughly a 5 block area.
I don’t care what side you’re on this is one of the better posts in this board in a very long time.
I need to read it more instead of just reacting but no matter, these perps in downtown are not protesting. They are committing very very violent crimes. It’s criminal activity not protesting.
I’m working 12 miles away from it and we may be shut down for about a week staring tomorrow because the cops are gearing up in my area.
You are so far out of your lane
You’re here spouting obvious lies and calling others who wore the uniform a disgrace. Every day you embarrass yourself further. Pretty clear you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
Which orders to the troops have been determined unlawful by the courts?
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None as of now, however, I don’t think the courts have ruled yet.
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The crap filed by Newsome is for the legality of the deployment.
I would think that only a military court could decide if an order is unlawful.
Dummy swerves out of his lane to obvious result.
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Wrong. The military is governed by civilian leadership for a reason…
so, civilian courts have the authority to rule on the legality of this matter.
Only a military judge can determine the lawfulness of an order.
"The lawfulness of an order, although an important issue, is not a discrete element of a disobedience offense. Therefore, it is a question of law to be determined by the military judge. MCM pt. IV, 14c(2)(a). United States v. Jeffers, 57 M.J. 13 (C.A.A.F. 2002); United States v. New, 55 M.J. 95 (C.A.A.F. 2001"
Link: Orders
The legality of this deployment is going to be decided by a civilian court….
Orders given internally in the military are absolutely decided by the UCMJ
It is pretty clear as a legal matter that the president has the authority to deploy.
For better or for worse, that is settled law as far as I can tell.
The claims of Trump abusing his powers are just that, claims to inflame the issues. Everyone knows he can do this.
As you say, though, what they do when they get there, and what orders are given on the ground, will be litigated.
Given the abuse of local politically oriented judges,this could cripple our militaryincritical times
I think China has a big card to play here, don't they?
While we wait for the lawyers to move it up the courts.
I truly believe John Roberts greatest failure (of several) was not limiting the scope of local judges.
Trump should get himself named a local judge at the end of his term. Then he would wield REAL power.
Ah. Correct. I believe I misread your post.
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