Is an actual headline in the NYT.
Attaboy, Joe and co.!
Fucking debacle. Have fun at Camp David, you pathetic clown.
Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/us/politics/taliban-afghanistan-us-embassy.html
(no message)
I am largely replying to your thread below.
As Commander in Chief, President Biden is 100% accountable for both. He knows that.
Regarding the latter (the withdrawal), it is rapidly turning into a disaster vs a gradually controlled operation. We clearly misjudged the speed in which the Taliban would seize ground. The optics are horrible for the United States, reflecting an inability to shepherd our friends to safety. Let’s hope our friends are not left behind to suffer a horrific fate.
Regarding the former (the decision to leave), history will judge whether it would have been better to indefinitely maintain a small military presence vs pulling out after 20 years as we have decided to do. It seems the President’s calculus was that at some point, Afghanistan has to hump their own shit. And that time is now.
As a side note, it is almost a given that those Americans who are the most hawkish have never suited up. See Dick Cheney. See Donald Trump.
Stated differently, the guys in the neighborhood bar who talked the most smack about American firepower after September 11th, are the last guys to have boarded a helicopter or landing craft into Harm’s Way.
We have all seen these tough talkin’ types our whole lives. They never serve. Their kids never serve. But, they are all US military experts.
Rear echelon sick bay commandos.
And it’s not solely Biden’s fault. Trump started the process and Biden continued it. I have a lot of buddies who are trying to organize rescue missions to help evacuate the Afghan interpreters and other personnel that helped the US military. Sad situation and unless we’re willing to deploy, it’s going to be a slaughter house.
(no message)
We could have quietly moved out assets over 6 months before officially pulling up tent stakes.
Link: Fair Criticism
Was not worth it by a long shot.
It needed to be done, but should have been done as you suggest.
time for this reason.
From Oct of 2020:
Donald Trump has announced on Twitter that he wants to bring all US troops home from Afghanistan by Christmas – a plan that came as a surprise to administration officials and which puts complicated peace negotiations in jeopardy.
The spin must be fast and furious, and you are only doing a subpar (and quite embarrassing) job of it. Keep insulting people not in power who have nothing to do with this...you think that will distract people from what you are doing?
Maybe you guys should stick with Russia. I mean, saying "Russia" three times fast in front of your bathroom mirror usually convinces you of anything.
Didn’t bother you in the least.
I've always said this would be a long war (100 years ring a bell?). But, you want to attack me, so you disregard me and attack the Stawman Ned you have created in your mind. I give Trump and Biden the benefit of the doubt on the decision to leave, but you don't like that because you need to keep picking a fight with me. You can't help it. So, I get the wow treatment. Not a surprise from you.
Long term occupation was an option. But no matter what, leaving was never going to be permanent. I figured it would be a break to rest and retrain before going back over, there or somewhere similar in the future. Coming home, or staying...just strategies in an ongoing war. Afghanistan wasn't a war, it was a battle. Iraq wasn't a war, it was a battle. The war continues.
Pulling out in a way that ignores military realities to score domestic political points is moronic, though. That's what is happening.
And I supported it even under Orange. I didn't try to score points off it like you are here.
Stop being a baby. I’m just using the phrase you have used so many times.
See how you did that?
We both didn't object to the decision. Judgement call. We both (I presume you agree) object to the clusterfuck of the ongoing departure.
But, you can't let agreement stand. You are Frank L, after all. You HAVE to disagree. This is the Internet! You are a troll! You have your honor to protect!
On the merits, I was assuming there would be a way to extract oneself so it didn't appear to be a full on, amazingly embarrassing retreat. If that was not the case...if there was no plan except for the one Biden is executing now (which you seem to say immediately above), then why did you support it? I wouldn't support that no matter who decided to embrace that embarrassment, Trump or Biden. We have to take the long view here. If that was the only option, then we should be killing as many Taliban as we can now. We should be running extermination raids. Oh well. You seem to support this embarrassment, giving Biden a pass ("no matter who did it") to score points now. I think that is sad.
How would you do it differently? As soon as we left they were gonna collapse and they have.
The difference is I accept those consequences as inevitable. The real issue is whether we should have left as the consequences were painfully obvious. You try to score political points off them. If this were happening under Orange, you would be saying exactly what I’m saying and you know it. When we go we have zero control of how things there are going to breakdown.
Link: One example I posted here.
If it was inevitable, then I suppose we should have made an effort to exterminate the Taliban. But, they didn't vote for Trump, and they aren't white, so I can see why they aren't a focus.
positions.
Said it under Orange and say it now. The decision to leave is correct, but it’s going to have some bad consequences.
(no message)
(no message)
(no message)