WHO explanation of how COViD deaths are tracked, since there’s some ignorance hete
People die of complications from COVID, not COVID. Explanation of tracking methodology below …
Death due to COVID-19
A COVID-19 death is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery between illness and death
Link: COVID WHO
Replies to: WHO explanation of how COViD deaths are tracked, since there’s some ignorance hete
There's an inherent weirdness here.
So you say that there were 1.2M deaths from CoViD in the US? Yes.
Is that the most of any country in the world? Yes.
Even more than far more populous countries like India or China (that created the virus in a lab)? Yes.
Far more than countries that didn't even have the "life-saving" mRNA vaccines? Yes.
Like the entire continent of Africa? Yes.
And you still think that the CDC, HHS and other health agency employees didn't deserve to get fired? Yes.
Per Leftists, China would never lie on data like that. China just respects life more than we do.
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You may note that no one wants to comment on the incongruity, much less address it.
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COVID was over-reported as “cause of death”, no doubt.
And if you talk to any ER or other docs, they were basically told during peak COVID to count every tangentially related death as a COVID death.
COVID did kill people, I don’t doubt that, but the numbers weren’t reliable.
Actually, there is a strong argument for "Under-Reporting" of COVID deaths in the U.S....
...from the attached paper...
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Since the identification of SARS-CoV-2 in December 2019, the virus has exacted a devastating toll on global health. In the United States (US), the COVID-19 pandemic has caused more than 33 million confirmed infections and over 600,000 reported deaths as of July 1, 2021. However, recent estimates of undiagnosed infections [1] and under-reported deaths [2], [3], [4] demonstrate that the true burden of COVID-19 in the US, and likely in other countries, has not been fully captured.
In The Lancet Regional Health – Americas, Iuliano et al [4] used an excess-mortality Poisson regression model to estimate the number of deaths attributable to COVID-19 in the US from March 2020 to May 2021. By adjusting all-cause death counts for incomplete reporting, Iuliano et al [4] fitted their age-stratified model to each American state. All-cause excess mortality includes deaths both from the virus itself and those that arise from the externalities of the pandemic. The excess deaths metric thereby includes deaths for which COVID-19 was not necessarily the proximate cause, but where an overtaxed healthcare system led to failures in addressing other causes of mortality.
Nationally, Iuliano et al [4] estimated a 24% rate in under-reporting, meaning that over 180,000 additional deaths were either directly or indirectly attributable to COVID-19 beyond the 582,135 that were reported on death certificates by May 2021. The majority of unrecognized deaths were estimated to have occurred during the early months of pandemic spread when the healthcare system was overwhelmed and testing inadequate.
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Link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8354557/#:~:text=Nationally%2C%20Iuliano%20et%20al%20%5B4,death%20certificates%20by%20May%202021.
We agree. The numbers weren’t reliable.
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You forget the days of refrigerated semi-trucks being used as temporary morgues in hospital parking
lots due to COVID-19 deaths…the severity of the disease was no Hoax.
Nice try, though.
Think and Research before posting, Cheeks...
>COVID Deaths per Million by country show the U.S. similar to several other nations
>India's HC system is nowhere near as robust when it comes to record keeping as the U.S. and surely undercounted COVID deaths, especially among the lower castes...and many other Third World countries (e.g. on the African continent) have even less capability
>China's severe lockdowns and unwillingness to open their records to the outside world invalidates their published pronouncements...and the "Lab Leak Theory" is just that...a theory without any scientific proof.
Prior to Trump's second term, the U.S. HHS organization was preeminent in the world...that is fast eroding under RFK Jr...and the man/party that put him in charge.
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_by_country_and_territory
Nothing weird about it, other countries implemented strict adherence to rules during Covid that
prevented more death.
A more persuasive argument would be the other countries did a poor job counting deaths
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This is hilarious. Show us the evidence that lockdowns accomplished this with clear causality
established.
Save your breath. This is like DEI to these people. No need for rational thought.
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What, like closing beaches and filling in skate parks with sand?
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This is so weird
“Complications from COVID” = COVID
One of the main complications is that people can’t breathe. So if your point is that people die from not being able to breathe…that’s not really a point at all, is it?
Stick with the humanities. Q412 understands the point. Here is the key part.
… a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 disease (e.g. trauma).
Why you guys can’t tell me what Tyrone’s golf partner died from is a head scratcher, but it illustrates the data collection problem with this.
Lance, COVID-19 is a 'Systemic Disease"...it affects multiple organs...i.e. any organ that has ACE2
or TMPRSS2 receptors which the virus can attached to...Lungs, Kidneys, Heart, Brain...Therefore, if there are persons with pre-existing conditions in those organs, they are susceptible to more serious illness, and possibly death...and were it not for being infected with COVID-19, those people would have continued living with treatable conditions...i.e. the infection with COVID-19 ended their lives. The pathophysiology is irrelevant to the patient and his/her family members.
Note that people with underlying health conditions represented the majority of deaths (70.4%)...but Not All deaths from COVID-19, since otherwise healthy people died as well (29.6%) (fm Cambridge University, Won-Young Choi)
Link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9901898/
You are getting much closer to answering my simple question
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The key factor is hospitalization rates post COVID vaccine.
Anyone who believes the vaccines were not a gamechanger is a loon.
Link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10893624/
Very interesting but in no way relevant to the discussion
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Yes it is. You assert that "COVID deaths" are not really from COVID, but from underlying illnesses.
The anti vaccine and "COVID is overhyped" crowd have been arguing that it really just a bad flu that killed scores of unhealthy people who were going to die anyway.
And that's bullshit. Unhealthy people were indeed more vulnerable to COVID's impact on the body, but COVID was the killer.
Vaccinations changed the deadly risks associated with COVID, and freed up thousands of hospital beds.
Hence, the outrage over RFK Junior's efforts to remove the CDC's capacity to make sure vaccines are safe and easily accessible for Americans.
Not sure that is true. Call covid the underlying illness if you like.
I’m just trying to filling in the blank on the death certificate…. X precipitated by Covid
People also die of complications of AIDS and cancer. Your point?
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He thinks he is clever.
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Not trying to be clever, just trying to understand what COMPLICATION the dude below died from.
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Thank you. That’s the point.
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Not the point at all. With out the primary sickness they don't die from the secondary symptoms.
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Did everyone who died with Covid die the same way?
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COVID-19 is a "Systemic Disease"...(see my earlier post)
...once infected through nasal/lung tissues, the virus enters the bloodstream and affects other organs with ACE2 and TMPRSS2 receptors. While the lungs are most susceptible to damage, other organs can be as well. Note also that "Viral Load"...i.e. HOW MUCH COVID-19 was taken in matters in the severity of disease.
It sure is
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Then what is your point?
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You admit below that you don’t know how he died just that he had Covid.
I’ll let it go at that.
Here's a more impartial perspective on this issue...
...from the attached study...
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Abstract
Infection by the new corona virus strain SARS-CoV-2 and its related syndrome COVID-19 has been associated with more than two million deaths worldwide. Patients of higher age and with preexisting chronic health conditions are at an increased risk of fatal disease outcome. However, detailed information on causes of death and the contribution of pre-existing health conditions to death yet is missing, which can be reliably established by autopsy only. We performed full body autopsies on 26 patients that had died after SARS-CoV-2 infection and COVID-19 at the Charité University Hospital Berlin, Germany, or at associated teaching hospitals. We systematically evaluated causes of death and pre-existing health conditions. Additionally, clinical records and death certificates were evaluated. We report findings on causes of death and comorbidities of 26 decedents that had clinically presented with severe COVID-19. We found that septic shock and multi organ failure was the most common immediate cause of death, often due to suppurative pulmonary infection. Respiratory failure due to diffuse alveolar damage presented as immediate cause of death in fewer cases. Several comorbidities, such as hypertension, ischemic heart disease, and obesity were present in the vast majority of patients. Our findings reveal that causes of death were directly related to COVID-19 in the majority of decedents, while they appear not to be an immediate result of preexisting health conditions and comorbidities. We therefore suggest that the majority of patients had died of COVID-19 with only contributory implications of preexisting health conditions to the mechanism of death.
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Another way to look at this is to view COVID-19 as the "Forcing Function" leading to death of patients with managed comorbidities (as opposed to diagnosed terminal conditions).
And as for my friend, I never heard him mention a serious physical condition he was concerned about, nor did I grill his son about it after he called me to give me the news of his passing.
IMO you are showing indications of a 'Comorbidity' known as "Boorishness"...
Link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7895917/
Thank you.
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You're welcome...
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Were it not for the COVID virus infection, my friend would not have died...simple as that. COVID
deaths come in many forms, not just Lung failure...you just acknowledged this fact. Seems to me you're having trouble disengaging gracefully after finding out you screwed up again.
Sounds like that’s what you heard.
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