Marriage for love is dying out altogether and perhaps reproduction as well.
For most of human history marriages were simply "arranged" for the purpose of creating an environment for raising a succeeding generation.
Of course our live spans were far far shorter and few folks were "planning" on living much beyond 40.
However, it's tough to imagine that today's young women will feel content never to become mothers.
So... what's the answer?
Link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/love-sex/voices-women-are-the-reason-men-are-giving-up-on-dating/ar-AA1QAtEf?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=691b2cb849c44d80b840ab873f6215b8&ei=21
Replies to: Marriage for love is dying out altogether and perhaps reproduction as well.
The idea of extreme individualism will succumb to natural selection, sadly for the West.
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It's not just one thing. There are a multitude of issues, not all the fault of either gender.
First and foremost, in my mind, is dating apps. As a concept, they can be great - much more efficient than approaching people randomly and hoping that they're single/available and interested in you. They're only on these applications to meet someone. A great way to connect to others who are, in theory, looking for what you are. The downside is that there is zero "room for error." One miscommunication, cancellation, or mistiming and someone can miss what would have been a potentially solid connect. And, if the first meet-up isn't mind-blowing, there's no "need" to give a second look, because you can just keep swiping away. Anecdotally from stories, it sounds like patience in getting to know someone is in short supply. Worse, some get addicted to the rush of all of the attention and forget what they originally wanted, which is a chance at a long-term relationship. It can be human nature to still be holding out for the next best thing. This goes both ways, and it would be wrong to pin it on men or women as culprits.
Second, radical feminism has not been good for women and marriage/family. They're blasted with messages from Western Society that they deserve to "have it all" their entire lives, and that making sacrifices to have families is some evil, patriarchal concept. This is how we get to tragic situations where women freeze their eggs at age 30 and then circle back at 45 to find that these modern medical solutions have significant failure rates, and that it's now too late. Or that establishing big-time executive careers is their first priority, and that they should consider settling down at 35 after they've "made partner" or achieved whatever abstract ideal they need to accomplish has been completed. The problem is that then, they still have to start the process of finding someone who wants to settle down with them and connect their lives when over 90% of their eggs are gone.
Third, as a corollary to #2, there is too much messaging that wanting a family is a silly, antiquated, Stockholm Syndrome relic of a patriarchal prison. One can argue as to the reasoning behind this all you want.
A friend of mine just started dating a Mennonite girl.
I'm like: that's a unicorn!
Why was the Amish girl considered a slut? Because she was seen with a couple Mennonite
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That's the spirit! And I bet there's no back talk from Hannah.
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Those gals who grew up milking cows...
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Also think the ubiquity of porn & electronics gaming allows men to get release without a woman.
The human desire for sex and for inter-personal relationships is dulled by the ability to have porn stars in your own bedroom, and the ability to put the headphones on and play games and chat with your buddies online. This kind of feeds into or reinforces the instant gratification theme. I just think there is less of a desire to go out. When I was young, I was always in search of a party, or a place to go...and so was everyone else, so we were all searching for connections through direct personal interactions. I don't see that with the upcoming generation...at least, I see it much less. A buddy of mine said his daughter is wondering where the men are...she can't meet anyone. (And just so you know, I've met his daughter, and the problem is definitely not her.) While this may not be uniformly true, I do think it is statistically significant. Porn & electronics were ubiquitous in Japan first, and their population started crashing first. Korea, the US and the West have followed the Japanese model.
I'm setting aside China because their population crash is because of heinous government policies, and doesn't apply to the West. China is 1984, where oppression leads to the problem. The US and Western Nations are Brave New World, where the pursuit of instant & easy pleasure leads to the problem.
I agree with your brave New world analogy.
There seems to be a lot of attractive, lonely women in their twenties. And I think a part of the reason is the whole me too. Craziness caused a lot of young men to give up on real women.
In a strange way, this validates long standing Catholic Church teaching, in my personal opinion.
I'm not directing this post at you, because I know you don't buy into the Church. I'm just making a general comment based on my faith journey, for general consumption.
When I was younger, I used to think that the Church went a little overboard in opposing what seemed like harmless side effects of porn. What's the big deal, I thought.
Now, as I see the harmful individual and societal effects of porn, I think, "Wow...how did the Church know?"
Answer: It didn't know this would happen. It was just sticking to core teachings...which turned out to be far more insightful than maybe even many in the Church realized. I have a new appreciation for the harm of "victimless sins" (and therefore for the Church's long standing opposition to them), as those victimless sins actually heavily victimize the participant when repeated over time.
I don't know if porn is a problem or a symptom of a problem.
I'm of the "addiction starts with pain and ends with pain" opinion in general.
I think people become addicted to addictive things. I don't think pain is required.
Some people just have addictive personalities. Others?...Porn is seductive because its addiction is so slow and the harmful effects are so delayed...but once you notice those effects, you are pretty well screwed (in that you will not be able to screw).
I would guess that loneliness could certainly make one invest more in porn...which in turn would lead to more loneliness. So, once started, the downward spiral could be a problem. And, the type of porn teens have access to nowadays (coupled with their hormones and undeveloped brains) is like meth compared to the Cosmopolitan magazines I had access to at the time.
With porn, there is a dopamine release, but it's not a function of a chemical.
Same thing happens when someone "likes" your post.
I would hypothesize the following:
1. Loneliness precedes porn addiction
2. A healthy relationship with an actual woman is the cure.
If we were to validate my hypotheses, would you agree with me?
Makes sense. A teen male will always be "lonely" for a teen female though due to his hormones.
Its not like your average teen will look away. He would have to have both tremendous self restraint and a near puritanical upbringing.
Are gambling addictions a function of the availability of gambling?
Or is it a function of people wanting to change their miserable life?
It is now more available than ever, that is for sure. Like porn, you can do it in your room at home.
Again, you never have to leave your house. I don't think you have to feel sad to want to get your free $50 from FanDuel, or whatever. I don't gamble now, but I did hit a few casinos years ago, and I do remember thinking it could be addictive. It all started with a social event with one of my past employers. I wasn't really trying to improve my sad lot in life.
Thankfully, my kids gamble on the stock market, not on sports or with cards. Playing the market at least involves studying things that matter in the business world, and at least has some application in saving for retirement.
You are only responsible for you.
.Jesus would back me up on this.
Important point, we're not talking about just teenagers.
Young men into their late twenties or thirties.
Good point. But, the older they get, the more self control they have. At least, I hope so.
And, hopefully, they've already met someone to spend their life with. But, I get your point.
I guess I've mostly been concerned with teen males who never go on a date. And note that as a society, we don't require people going to dances to get dates anymore. In my day, we had mixers and dances, and for the latter, you had to get a date. For one of my daughter's dances, there were like 8 girls at a pre-dance party, and one of them had a date. The dance was mostly girls. Pretty sad. For our dances in my youth (and yours too, I assume), you had to ask a girl ahead of time (or have a friend set you up), buy flowers, get dressed up, pick the girl up, talk to the parents, take pictures... It is a right of passage, and you learn a lot doing those things. And presumably, if things go well, you will at least get a kiss at the end of the night. But now, there are many 25 year olds who haven't gone on a single date, and haven't kissed a girl. That is very sad. They are faced with going on their very first date while in their 20's. Much easier to sit down at their computer instead, and that is what many are doing.
There can be no doubt.
Males used to have to "use" magazines/films that they purchased (or swiped from their old man) to satisfy these urges in the absence of a partner. Then it evolved to be purchased and downloaded, but they still needed an empty room with a V.C.R. or a computer and monitor.
In the last 15 years, however, it can simply be streamed on demand for free from any device that can connect to the internet for free, 24 hours a day. For many, that diminishes the appetites for the effort that comes with building an intimate connection with another person. It also rapidly elevates the hurdle for what's required just to arouse many men beyond what a normal intimate relationship tends to provide.
It isn't good. At all.
Just think of how hard we had to work to see boobs
I don't know what it would be like to be 14 and have round-the-clock boob access at your fingertips.
I'm surprised they get anything done.
Repressing impure thoughts has become totally impossible.
And to think that a JC Penny catalogue was once a teenage age boy's erotic material.
It's offset by the fact that your generation had actual sex.
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100%.
I used to think it was a bad thing. Now I can't imagine what my G.P.A. would have been with that much available on-demand, and I'm glad I didn't have to find out. I doubt my teenage discipline would have overcome it.
Japan, China and Russia have declining birth rates as well...Solution:...Immigration.
Japan and China have cultural issues with non-ethnic immigration, while Russia seems to favor "Forced Immigration'...e.g. its attempt to "acquire' Ukraine.
Thanks for highlighting Trump's stupidity...and campaign to 'Take America Down'.
Immigration without assimilation is no bed of roses.
Historically, immigrants to the US mourned the loss of their birthlands and went out of their way to make their children become "Americanized."
NOT ANYMORE!
Today they tend to cling to their old cultures and their kids grow up no holding the US in high esteem.
Link: https://www.hoover.org/research/migration-remaking-europe-there-workable-path-forward-continent
Aside from Trump's overt efforts to destroy what Reagan championed...i.e. Immigration to keep
America growing and prospering has been working just fine...if you hop on a plane and revisit CA and the rest of the West Coast, you'll find that immigrants speaking over 100 languages are assimilating just fine...case in point...our second generation Vietnamese owned car repair center is constantly flooded with cars from all over the area, and when you call them on the phone you wouldn't know they came from another country...they sound, talk and act just like folks whose families have been here for a hundred years.
America was built on Immigration...ALL of us are descendants of Immigrants...it's in our national DNA...unlike European and most other long established countries...they are very much 'Insular'...and therefore less welcoming to 'outsiders'...just like Japan and China.
The scope of immigration in the Reagan era was several quantum less than today.
If you go to Dearborn, Michigan you can see that assimilation is not exactly "on track."
And in Europe it's been a disaster.
Since Reagan didn't have to deal with retiring Baby Boomers, the need is even greater...it's akin to
Economic Suicide to halt Immigration...what alternative would you suggest?
He's trying to draw another false equivalence.
Specifically, "Reagan supported immigration" = "Only ignorant xenophobes don't support the Biden-era flow of illegal migrants."
Don't waste your time with this. This isn't an attempt at a serious discussion.
From the George W. Bush Presidential Center..."Benefits of Immigration Outweigh the Costs"...
Long history of bipartisan support for Immigration...until Trump.
Are you Anti-American?
Link: https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/north-american-century/benefits-of-immigration-outweigh-costs
I'm actually not entirely convinced you're an American.
We do know that you here pushing an agenda from whatever sackless group is branched out from the regressive party to push propaganda. That much has been fully exposed, as you're not a Notre Dame grad, and you're not this silly identity you've tripped over numerous times trying to claim. You may be from somewhere overseas, but you haven't slipped up to show that yet.
And I'm not addressing your stupid false equivalence that you've tried again to push out.
Here's more from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce on the need for more Immigration...
We absolutely need MILLIONS more Immigrants...and Trump is doing NOTHING to make that happen. Again, Putin didn't fund Trump all these years in order to "Make America Great"...EVER.
Link: https://www.uschamber.com/workforce/america-works-data-center
How about listening to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and 'The Alliance for a New Immigration
Consensus'...a bipartisan group that strongly urges legislation (see Biden/GOP Senate Bill) to fix Border Security and Legal Immigration issues so as to provide 11.3M more workers who are desperately needed. That was in 2022...the need is even greater now, since DJT killed the 2024 Bill and has done NOTHING to fix Border Security or Legal Immigration Policy or Programs it addressed.
Can't get a more "America Focused" group than that, Jake.
Link: https://www.uschamber.com/immigration/u-s-chamber-joins-bipartisan-coalition-in-urging-immigration-reform-ahead-of-2022-midterms-we-can-no-longer-afford-to-delay
Reminded of this New Yorker cartoon each time I see another one of Ty's offerings here...
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LOL...not surprised that the first thing your mind goes to is a Dog Cartoon ;-)...not the deepest
thinker on this board...I'll try to keep my replies to you under 140 characters.
Ha! Awesome.
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Yes, let's import our next generation rather than encourage our citizens to reproduce.
You are a perfect Soros puppet.
Suspect you could easily pick out Tyrone's car...from the "WWGSD" bumper sticker...
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Just let Jake try to extricate himself from that hole he just dug...that diversion isn't helping ;-)
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And how long is that going to take to get more adult workers, Jake?..and what's the probability of
it happening?
Have you even thought about those questions?
Illegal immigration is the answer? Or legal immigration?
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Did you actually expect an answer to you question?
Of course he is in favor of illegal immigration.
Why do you ignore all my posts supporting a bipartisan Border Security and Immigration Bill...like
the one Biden got passed in the Senate at the beginning of 2024? That's the only way funding can be established for meaningful long-term changes...like 1,500 more CBP Officers...more Immigration Judges to reduce the time for "Documentation" from 6+ years to less than 6 months...100+ HIgh Tech/High Volume Fentanyl Scanners at our Border Checkpoints...greater scrutiny of Asylum seekers...caps on the number of entry requests, etc.
BTW, I've posted how DJT called for Congress to FINALLY pass such a bill in 2019...then killed Biden's bipartisan Senate Bill in 2024...and STILL hasn't done a thing about it in spite of havoing both Houses of Congress...doesn't that seem odd to you?
Basically, you're a waste of server space.on this site...just thought I'd state the obvious ;-)
Because it was a garbage bill that codified the mess that you people created.
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I'll ask you the same question (again)...what specifically do you think is wrong with the Bill?
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Answered repeatedly.
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Should be a piece of cake to prove it...what's keeping you?
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Apparently just your laziness and (more likely) denial. I don't blame you.
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The attached link should help you recall what it was that you didn't like about the bill...just
point them out...or are you too lazy to do even that? ;-)
btw, looks like a fantastic bill to me...way better than what Trump called for from Congress in 2019.
While I've got your attention...any ideas on how we can accelerate pregnancies and child rearing to meet our adult worker shortage?
Link: https://www.lankford.senate.gov/issues/calling-out-bidens-chaos-at-the-southern-border-pushing-to-secure-the-us-from-bad-actors-around-the-world/
Unlike you, I read the bill.
You are free to find my distaste with it on here. I'm not rehashing to accomodate your laziness.
As for Lankford, his intentions were good, but stupid. He felt that it was a good first step and was "at least something" to start to address the problem. His misguided ambition on it was his inability to see what the left tried to force in. The G.O.P. was correct to squash it.
All 292 pages?...very impressive...with all that time spent, you should have a deep understanding of
what specifically wasn't done to your liking in S.4361...why can't you cite even one item for us all?...
Maybe this section didn't meet your expectations...do you think the budget allocations for CBP personnel and Non-Intrusive drug scanning devices were too little?...too high?
Note that no such expenses have been authorized by Donald Trump thus far..i.e. no legislation has been passed...so the issues they were designed to remedy are still unaddressed.
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SECURITY, ENFORCEMENT, AND
INVESTIGATIONS
U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION
OPERATIONS AND SUPPORT
(INCLUDING TRANSFER OF FUNDS)
For an additional amount for ‘‘U.S. Customs and
Border Protection—Operations and Support’’,
$4,001,239,000, to remain available until September 30,
2026: Provided, That of the total amount provided under
this heading in this Act, $2,091,363,000 shall be for oper-
ational requirements relating to migration surges along
the southwest border, counter-fentanyl activities, nec-
essary expenses at ports of entry, reimbursement to the
Department of Defense for border operations support, and
other related expenses; $1,134,876,000 shall be for the
hiring of U.S. Customs and Border Protection personnel;
$25,000,000 shall be for familial DNA testing; and
$750,000,000 shall be transferred to ‘‘Federal Emergency
Management Agency—Federal Assistance’’ to support
sheltering and related activities provided by non-Federal
entities through the Shelter and Services Program: Pro-
vided further, That such amount is designated by the Con-
gress as being for an emergency requirement pursuant to
section 251(b)(2)(A)(i) of the Balanced Budget and
Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.
•S 4361 PCS
VerDate Sep 11 2014 00:05 May 21, 2024 Jkt 049200 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6652 Sfmt 6201 E:BILLSS4361.PCS S4361
kjohnson on DSK7ZCZBW3PROD with $$_JOB
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9
PROCUREMENT, CONSTRUCTION, AND IMPROVEMENTS
For an additional amount for ‘‘U.S. Customs and
Border Protection—Procurement, Construction, and Im-
provements’’, $2,334,000,000, to remain available until
September 30, 2027: Provided, That of the total amount
provided under this heading in this Act, $2,000,000,000
shall be for acquisition and deployment of non-intrusive
inspection technology, $260,000,000 shall be for acquisi-
tion and deployment of border security technology, and
$74,000,000 shall be for acquisition and deployment of air
assets: Provided further, That such amount is designated
by the Congress as being for an emergency requirement
pursuant to section 251(b)(2)(A)(i) of the Balanced Budg-
et and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985.
U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT
OPERATIONS AND SUPPORT
For an additional amount for ‘‘U.S. Immigration and
Customs Enforcement—Operations and Support’’,
$6,043,876,000, to remain available until September 30,
2026: Provided, That of the total amount provided under
this heading in this Act, $1,671,614,000 shall be for in-
creased custodial detention capacity, $2,465,643,000 shall
be for increased removal flights and related activities, in-
cluding short-term staging facilities, $415,752,000 shall
be for hiring U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
-----------------
The bill was crap, you are the only one still clinging to it.
Nothing new was needed to secure the border.
What about that Bill don't you agree with? The part that funded 1,500 CBP Officers instead of 750
Trump asked for in 2019?...
I'm not holding my breath for an intelligent reply from you, Pa...carry on.
Listen to what the USCCB has to say about how Trump is treating Immigration...i.e. Horribly. The way
to conduct Immigration properly is through Congressional action...like Trump called for in 2019 when Democrats had control (we can discuss why it didn't happen after Trump's call...short answer DJT's "Border Wall" spending that even Republicans wouldn't support)
Finally, in 2024 Biden worked with rational Republicans in the Senate and got a bipartisan bill passed...only to be killed by Trump so as to keep his #1 campaign issue alive. Note that he still hasn't asked Congress to come up with a Bill...Weird, isn't it, when he has control over the House and Senate.
Are you paying any attention to what' going on here?
What’s the problem?
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You're right. Who cares if we stop having families and raising kids.
Live for your personal moment and fuck anything beyond that.