CNN reported today (and in 2024), that Biden admin recognized Gonzalez, not Maduro, as VE president.
Anyone here disagree with the Biden administration on that?
Replies to: CNN reported today (and in 2024), that Biden admin recognized Gonzalez, not Maduro, as VE president.
Oh my, this is embarrassing for some here.
(no message)
Of course he did. And Clinton hated Saddam.
But only Bush thought invading Iraq was wise.
Only Trump thought it was appropriate to kidnap a sitting head of state.
But I get the real point. Whatabout Biden's condemnation of Maduro. Yawn.
Kidnap or arrest? Kidnap is more dramatic so of course you went with that one. Did you participate
in any of the staged protests with paid protesters? Figured it could be a good side job for you since you hate everything Trump does and it probably is profitable.
Kidnap.
(no message)
What is the ransom?
(no message)
I can hear it now. Trump calling and asking for biggest, best and most beautiful ransom anyone
Has ever seen. It will be a ransom like people have never seen before, one a kind, maybe they will need to borrow it from CHINA!
300B barrels of oil and you can have dictator douchebag back.
(no message)
When law enforcement arrests an indicted individual, are they kidnaping or arresting?
If your answer depends on who is president at the time, then you are not being intellectually honest.
Legal, justified arrests are not kidnapping. This was neither.
(no message)
OK. Let's discuss "legal,"since "justified" is argumentative.
Are all US court indictments of sitting heads of state illegal?...even ones not recognized by the United States?
Or, is the indictment legal, but the arrest was illegal? If the arrest was illegal, how could they have arrested Maduro in a legal way?
Again, I am talking about international law
And there is no way that it is legal to violate a state's sovereignty and seize its head of state. Consult the UN Charter if you doubt me.
When other former officials face justice here (like the former prez of Honduras who your cult leader pardoned), they were arrested by their own countries and extradited as part of an established legal process. Or arrested here, like the former defense secretary of Mexico.
No kidnapped by the Delta Force.
Who decides if he is a legitimate head of state?
The mayor of NYC?
Legitimate or illegitimate, he was running the country
If we are going to stop recognizing the basic immunity of heads of state, then we are saying it would be OK for China's leadership to indict the president of Taiwan and go grab him and put him on trial in Beijing.
I would have been gobsmacked if Biden did this. I am gobsmacked now.
Don't you think Noriega/Panama is a better analog than whatabout Taiwan?
(no message)
Interesting that we are getting to this: Those who oppose this action seem to be arguing...
...that if we had invaded and took over the country in a war, we could have grabbed him and tried him...that's what victors in war can do. But, since we kidnapped him with Delta Force and did not kill thousands and more of his people in the process, we should return him and reinstate him. Kind of a weird place to be in.
I'm honestly not sure I fully support this action, even though I see the end as an absolute good. So, I kind of see Chris's point. But as I say, what a weird outcome. Imagine a NY judge saying the above, and the US attorney saying, "OK, we will invade and kill thousands at your direction, so that we can continue this trial." Seems like a bad outcome for the law. Then again, I guess it is one way to ensure that a nation is very serious about the need for what it is doing before it nabs another nation's leader.
Yes, that's the same conundrum I am facing in trying to understand what is "right".
(no message)
Panama is a best-case scenario.
Not a good analogy, since Noriega was killing American troops, which triggered the invasion. But that is the best-case scenario.
Also worth noting that the arrest of Noriega was condemned by the UN, and was certainly illegal.
I don't think much of international law. Countries violate it all the time. Wisdom is a better marker than legality....but we should not pretend what just happened was legal.
It’s about giving bad actors “permission” to do what “the US just did.”
When the United States treats international law in a cavalier manner, then authoritarian states and regimes feel empowered to invade smaller fish nations for whatever reason they concoct.
It’s the precedent set by the United States this past year re Venezuela that should cause the most concern. We no longer have standing to condemn the Putin like autocrats for unilateral breaches of other sovereign nations.
It would've been more credible if you'd led w your last line here when raging about illegality
of Maduro's recent unplanned trip up North.
It's certainly better than the all out kinetic warfare you feared.
(no message)
That is true. The build-up the Caribbean (which continues) just makes no sense, if this is it.
(no message)
Hopefully it's to focus on the western hemisphere.
(no message)
Your last line sums things up pretty well.
(no message)
Has anyone started a GoFundMe for Maduro yet?
(no message)
Ha! I didn't think this would be the topic which would reveal I'm not on ignore. Welcome back.
So, you disagree with Biden. At least you can admit that. Tyrone could not admit that. Maybe he could now, since you have provided some cover to him, but no way he would do it first...and it remains to be seen if he will ever do it.
Huh? I don't disagree with Biden. Maduro was/is a thug. A horrible cancer.
(no message)
That's not the issue. Blinken said Maduro wasn't president. He hadn't won the election.
But thanks for the "Whatabout Maduro being a thug" distraction from the current discussion regarding the fact that Dems believed Maduro was not president of Venezuela before Trump took office.
Ends are the same. Means are different. Is that hard to grasp?
(no message)
Are you talking about the end of bringing Maduro to justice, with two different means...
Trump's means of snatching Maduro from Caracas to bring Maduro to justice; and
Biden's means of doing nothing at all to bring Maduro to justice?
Honest question. I'm not trying to piss you off. I realize I may have misunderstood your point, so I welcome correction if I have misstated it.
Are you on the side of the Venezuelans celebrating or the protestors holding signs Free Maduro Now!?
(no message)
Are you sure that Venezuelans are celebrating? I know I've watched lots of videos on X with
thousands of people celebrating but it was mentioned that they aren't celebrating. Weird, amirite?
Presume you are celebrating...with Cigar City Maduros...
(no message)
Going to have to head to Publix to see if they are carrying that and pick some up for this weekend.
(no message)
Buy a lottery ticket while you are there...the winner always bought it at a Publix.
(no message)
Consent Management