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Link: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/schools-covid-19-operational-guidance

Fines, arrests, bring it on mommy dearest. And how will you enforce when you've defunded the police?

Link: https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/ore-gov-brown-you-wont-get-arrested-get-ticket-violating-mask-mandate-it

......the delta variant is being described as FAR more communicable. That diminishes further the concept of masks being helpful since any benefit they had with regular COVID was small even when used correctly. But what hasn't changed is the harm from masks - particularly on young children.
Masks as worn improperly in general by the general public are merely placebo. (reusing same mask, touching face more frequently which defeats purpose and actually makse transmission risk higher whent his is done, homemade masks). Since we were beyond masks in the general vaccinated population with plain COVID, the real question is whether there is any benefit to masks with this more infectious variant - ie people may just get it anyways and take on all of the negatives of wearing a mask as well. The other obvious question is whether the vaccine is no longer effective against this Chinese engineered virus' new variant.

Because the Biden admin has been so untruthful about it's guidelines, and because they have bounced around so frequently, it is reasonable to doubt them.

I personally have a lot of confidence in the 2 shot vaccines Moderna and Pfizer despite their deceptive practices. Yes, I think that the Biden admin pushed to have the FDA move its' timetable for approval up on the Pfizer (the political benefit of some good news to distract from Afghanistan is obvious, and the CDC is more political than medical these days as is the FDA and any pother govt agency under this group). But I also am sure this was going to be their finding in a few weeks also.

I also disagree strongly with the Oregon Gov who has reinstituted outdoor masks - esp for vaccinated people.

be enforced because they are so ridiculous

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confront them?...tell them how foolish they look?...tell them they don't know what they're doing?

It's a simple mask...you're a doctor...you've worn them before...stop with the drama.

BTW, just be glad you're not in FLA doing their jobs...you might be a bit frustrated too.


Link: https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/75-florida-doctors-stage-walkout-in-protest-of-unvaccinated-covid-19-patients/

outdoors)

Link: https://forum.uhnd.com/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=2&msgid=25109

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and hear the frustration that all the hospital staff feels for seriously ill patients who don't need to be there...save for high office holders who won't tell them to follow 'Doctor's Orders' and get vaccinated.

We're been at this for well over a year now...without sufficient vaccination levels, our only defense against the virus...which has no political affiliation...is mask wearing and social distancing...really quite simply, Ned...get out of your 'political bubble' and get with the program...(one can dream...).

I really expect better from you.

think 90% of your posts are made up, egotistic bullshit.

And your continued faith in a political organization that keeps changing its guidelines based on political goals reveals that your ignorance is willfull.

If you think that a mask will help in a crowded outside setting with the delta variant as infectious as described, your wrong. The real answer would be to block the outdoor settings - but that loses elections. This is all politically motivated.

Better put on that 2nd mask again ( its great for signalling fellow liberals).

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I wonder if he's searching for some way to pretend the "science has changed" again in the last 2 weeks.

state and is therefore following the guidelines for fully vaccinated individuals which were updated on August 19th (Obama's party was on the weekend of August 8/9)...the CDC doesn't just set and forget guidelines...they adjust them to the status of the pandemic.

In case you're too lazy to open the link (could happen)...here's the salient guideline...

"In general, you do not need to wear a mask in outdoor settings.
- In areas with high numbers of COVID-19 cases, consider wearing a mask in crowded outdoor settings and for activities with close contact with others who are not fully vaccinated."

All you had to do was a little, teensy bit of research to keep from embarrassing yourself...again.

BTW, please keep your prurient thoughts to yourself ;-).


Link: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html

"In general, you do not need to wear a mask in outdoor settings."

A mandate means as soon as you step outside of your house, have a mask on. That doesn't seam to be following the guidance to me.

"In areas with high numbers of COVID-19 cases, consider wearing a mask in crowded outdoor settings and for activities with close contact with others who are not fully vaccinated."

Consider is the key word here, which places the responsibility for the decision on the fully vaccinated person.

This quoted guidance from the CDC for vaccinated people does not in any way make a statewide mandate reasonable, so I opened your link and looked around, and still found nothing on the CDC site that said anything about fully vaccinated people wearing a mask while outdoors as a requirement. Even with all the adjustment to the pandemic and delta variant that has happened, so how exactly does any of this in your mind actually equal the Oregon governor "following the guidelines for fully vaccinated individuals which were updated on August 19th?"

and her "considered opinion" is that a mandate for outdoor mask wearing is appropriate...her call...supported by the CDC.

You have a different opinion...not sure why you'd want her to forego the expert medical opinion of people who have chosen to devote their lives to keeping people healthy...maybe you can explain the thinking behind that.

BTW, the title of the CDC page I linked was..."When You've Been Fully Vaccinate"...and all the guidelines given are under that condition...not sure how you missed it...again, the "guideline" is not a requirement...it's an advisory...and was specifically added for those situations where high numbers of COVID-19 cases were occurring...and virtually every state is experiencing those increases...including Oregon.

Good of you to join in...seriously...this is important stuff.

So you really didn't answer anything.

I am pretty good at reading, and yes the page you linked was about fully vaccinated people. So let's break down the title of the article you were replying to with your link:

Oregon governor announces statewide outdoor mask mandate regardless of vaccination status - that would seem to me to include fully vaccinated people, but hey, you tell me where I'm reading that wrong.

Homeless people are exempt from the order - I would bet that many of these folks are not vaccinated, so why exempt them? Let's go back to what you quoted, I'll add the title for you so you know I read it.

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated
How to Protect Yourself and Others - Note, it doesn't say hey Governor, this is what you should do to protect the people in your state, this article is addressed to the people who have been fully vaccinated. Now to your quote:

In general, you do not need to wear a mask in outdoor settings. - Again, how does this constitute for a governor to mandate fully vaccinated people to have a mask on when walking by themselves to their car? Or with family members? Or on a walk by themselves?

In areas with high numbers of COVID-19 cases, consider wearing a mask in crowded outdoor settings and for activities with close contact with others who are not fully vaccinated. - Again, this guidance is telling the fully vaccinated person, not the governor, to make a decision for themselves, they don't even say we recommend you do this, they say for you to consider it, not the powers that be.

her "considered opinion" is that a mandate for outdoor mask wearing is appropriate...her call...supported by the CDC. - That's a falsehood, nothing in the CDC guidelines you posted supports a mask mandate for fully vaccinated people.

You have a different opinion...not sure why you'd want her to forego the expert medical opinion of people who have chosen to devote their lives to keeping people healthy...maybe you can explain the thinking behind that. - My response was that you posted something that did not support your position, or the mandate, and asked you to explain how what you posted supported it, by breaking down that nothing you posted showed that a mask mandate for fully vaccinated people was called for. I've done it again in this post since you seem to have missed that. There was no expert medical opinion that supports a mask mandate of fully vaccinated people for simply being outdoors, and what you posted doesn't even support a mandate in a crowd of unvaccinated people for that fully vaccinated person. If it did the wording would have been recommended at the least, not just to consider it.

BTW, the title of the CDC page I linked was..."When You've Been Fully Vaccinate"...and all the guidelines given are under that condition...not sure how you missed it...again, the "guideline" is not a requirement...it's an advisory...and was specifically added for those situations where high numbers of COVID-19 cases were occurring...and virtually every state is experiencing those increases...including Oregon. - I assume here that you are referencing that I opened your link and looked around. Now I want you to read what you said again, where you note that a guideline is not a requirement for fully vaccinated people, and come to the understanding that what you posted does not actually support a mask mandate.

If you want to say that it is her call, that's fine, it is, the people of Oregon voted for her, you get what you voted for, but don't tell me it is supported by the CDC when it isn't.

Edit: Effective Friday 8/27, masks will be required in public outdoors settings where physical distancing is not possible, regardless of vaccination status. - I will say that I was wrong to mention the previous situations that I did, as those are not covered by the mandate. I guess I should have actually read the FIRST article posted lol. But the CDC guidance for fully vaccinated that you posted still does not actually merit this mandate.

some ad hominem and calling it a day...

You are correct to say that the CDC never used the term "mandate" or anything like it...they just provided their advice (e.g. 'consider' using masks in outdoor settings, even if fully vaccinated) under certain conditions...Oregon's governor saw that advisory...and doubtless has heard (for over a year now) from her own health departments...and decided that masks were justified in outdoor settings to keep the case positivity rate low there...indeed, it was her call...based on the highest level medical advice available to her...and her mandate call is totally legal. Will 100% of the citizenry agree with it?...or course not...but she's not harming anyone with the mandate IMO...it's easy to do...and it works...even if Baron doesn't think so.

Can we agree that Oregon's governor issued a legal order, and that it was based on the very best medical advice available?...i.e. she didn't just make it up on a whim...the CDC had already made the recommendation for individuals and groups of individuals (like states). Pandemics involve "communicable" diseases, so individuals can't just do whatever they want...because their actions - or inactions - affect the health of others...therefore, government needs to step in, when judged appropriate.

Sounds to me like you're all-in on individuals being the only ones to make such decisions...I disagree with that, given the fact that we are in the midst of a pandemic and need government leadership.

As to the Governor and the mandate, I don't know Oregon law, but I am sure that whatever executive powers she holds, she is well within her powers to issue the mandate. I would also hope, as you noted, that she spoke with her health advisory staff prior to doing this, and that they (who are not the CDC) recommended it as a good course of action. If those things are true, then by all means I would agree with you that she is within her power and was listening to her advisors. As I said, you get what you voted for. If the mandate is unpopular enough it's possible she doesn't get elected again. I do find it odd that you think that one individual making the decision for all is better than each individual, who know their own circumstances better, being allowed to make their own educated decision.

The real reason, in my opinion, to mandate anyone regardless of vaccination, is because we all know that there are assholes out there who would just pretend that they were vaccinated and not wear one. The military tried allowing vaccinated people to go without masks, and even though the numbers reported for my unit were less than 50% vaccinated, you would be hard pressed to find anyone that was wearing a mask. The other part I find stupid about the mandate is saying homeless people don't have to. This is undoubtedly a population of largely unvaccinated people who are not exactly sanitary, and you are giving them a pass? It defeats the whole purpose of your mandate, so why even make it in the first place?

What I was against in your post is that somehow the guidance leads you to believe that what was written = mask mandate. It doesn't. I am also not anti-mask, I wore mine prior to getting vaccinated, and my job requires that I wear one indoors when around others, so I do, because it is what is asked of me. The same as if a business puts up a sign saying they are requiring masks, I will wear one in there if they made that choice, it's their business. I am also completely against the anti-mask asshats that want to go into said business just to start a commotion about their "rights" in the same manner that I can't stand the asshats who run around trying to police people who are not wearing one because they think it is the right choice.

What I do believe in is personal accountability. I don't think a mandate is required for outdoor gatherings if you've been vaccinated, because the CDC doesn't say they strongly or even remotely recommend it. They just want me to consider it if I find myself in certain situations.

Government leadership does not have to be authoritarian in nature for it to be effective. I can place the choice on the people and businesses, I can ask them to have smaller gatherings. When you do this, there is a majority of people who will simply do what you ask, rather than fighting back against something you mandate. No one should want or need a nanny state.

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Why are you so terrified of masks?...nothing seems to get you so worked up as wearing a piece of cloth...

BTW, have you already forgotten the lessons learned from the MIT researchers regarding the value of masks?...it's such an easy concept to grasp, yet you forever struggle...why is that?

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