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Question for Ty on Catholic theology and a "just war"

Author: MarkHarman  (7787 Posts - Original UHND Member)
Posted at 4:16 am on Apr 19, 2026
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Is it your interpretation that the Catholic Church believes a country cannot morally engage in war unless it is attacked first?

And by "attacked first," does that mean militarily by conventional understanding, or do these count?:

Nov 1979–Jan 1981: Tehran Hostage Crisis: Iranian students seized the U.S. embassy in Tehran, taking 66 Americans hostage for 444 days
.
Apr 1983: Beirut Embassy Bombing: An Iran-backed group conducted a suicide bombing at the U.S. embassy in Beirut, killing 17 Americans.

Oct 1983: Beirut Barracks Bombing: Hezbollah terrorists blew up the Marine compound in Beirut, killing 241 U.S. military personnel.

1984–1991: Lebanon Hostage Crisis: Iran-backed Hezbollah systematically kidnapped U.S. personnel, including killing CIA station chief William Buckley.

1985: TWA Flight 847 Hijacking: Hezbollah militants hijacked a U.S. flight, killing a U.S. Navy diver.

1996: Khobar Towers Bombing: Iran-backed Hezbollah Al-Hijaz bombed a U.S. housing complex in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 U.S. Airmen.

2003–2011: Iraq War Proxy Attacks: Iran's Quds Force provided weapons and training to insurgents, killing over 600 U.S. service members, says the FDD report.

Jan 2020: Ballistic Missile Attack: Following the death of Qasem Soleimani, Iran launched missiles at Ain al-Asad Air Base in Iraq, causing traumatic brain injuries to over 100 U.S. troops.

Mar 2023: Syria Drone Strike: An Iranian drone killed an American contractor and wounded five U.S. troops in Syria.

Jan 2024: Jordan Base Attack: Kata'ib Hezbollah launched a drone strike on a U.S. base in Jordan (Tower 22), killing three American soldiers.

2023–2024: Regional Attacks: Between Oct 2023 and Nov 2024, Iranian proxies conducted over 180 attacks against U.S. forces in the Middle East, wounding over 180 personnel.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Replies to: “Question for Ty on Catholic theology and a "just war"”


Thread Level: 2

Tyrone thinks Just War Theory is a justification for abortion.

Author: NedoftheHill  (46505 Posts - Joined: Jun 30, 2011)
Posted at 1:34 am on Apr 20, 2026
View Single

Thinking about it in relation to an actual war will be something new to him.

Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.
Thread Level: 3

Yep.

Author: TakethetrainKnute  (35197 Posts - Original UHND Member)
Posted at 11:04 am on Apr 20, 2026
View Single

(Home office is working up a response for him though.)

Thread Level: 4

Thanks for the 'Left Handed Compliment'...must be hard on you accepting a singular "Boomer"

Author: TyroneIrish  (24245 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)
Posted at 9:34 pm on Apr 20, 2026
View Single

providing substance you can't compete with...just hang in there and try harder.

Thread Level: 3

We'll return to that issue shortly...good to hear that you're ready to re-engage.

Author: TyroneIrish  (24245 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)
Posted at 6:41 am on Apr 20, 2026
View Single

(no message)

Thread Level: 2

It’s much more complicated than that

Author: Chris94  (38635 Posts - Original UHND Member)
Posted at 11:17 pm on Apr 19, 2026
View Single

I teach just war theory every year. Self-defense is only one of the criteria.

The most important one is proportionality - if a greater evil is done by inaction, then war is a moral necessity. Rwanda, for instance.

But there is no way to justify what is happening now. At the very least, it fails the “last resort” requirement.

The pope, as it turns out, is right.


Thread Level: 2

The question is whose side are you on Mark, the Pope or Vance? I'm with Leo.

Author: ND521  (9867 Posts - Joined: May 10, 2016)
Posted at 6:17 pm on Apr 19, 2026
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(no message)

God may not care who wins, but His mother does
Thread Level: 2

Take some time to read the RCC Catechism section (2308) dealing with Just Wars while also noting

Author: TyroneIrish  (24245 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)
Posted at 5:36 pm on Apr 19, 2026
View Single

That no President prior to DJT has initiated a war in response to the incidents you noted. The terms “Proportional Response” and “Prudential Judgment”…also apply in any contemplation of war.

Link: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1981-1988/lebanon

Thread Level: 3

A key principle of Catholic Just War Theory is the actions of past US presidents. Makes sense.

Author: NedoftheHill  (46505 Posts - Joined: Jun 30, 2011)
Posted at 1:34 am on Apr 20, 2026
View Single

Don't try to pretend this issue is black and white. JWT provides a framework for discussion that, while valid, would nonetheless take an entire academic year to discuss...without providing a definitive answer. When you get infinite threats, like possible use of nuclear weapons, it becomes somewhat problematic (and problematic I mean pretty much impossible) for a room of even the smartest people to agree on what is proportional and appropriate. But, please, don't let that stop you from posturing. Maybe provide a link, pretend you read it and understood it, and pretend that it supports only your viewpoint and no one else's.

Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.
Thread Level: 4

"When you get infinite threats, like possible use of nuclear weapons,.."...not so "Infinite" that a

Author: TyroneIrish  (24245 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)
Posted at 6:39 am on Apr 20, 2026
View Single

peacefully negotiated JCPOA couldn't be crafted. Read what the USCCB wrote, and what's in the RCC Catechism para. 2308...Trump and Netanyahu don't have the patience or fortitude to seek non-violent solutions...

Thread Level: 4

He’s a dissembler.

Author: TakethetrainKnute  (35197 Posts - Original UHND Member)
Posted at 3:38 am on Apr 20, 2026
View Single

(no message)

Thread Level: 2

FWIW, the "just war"doctrine is from the Augustinians — Pope Leo’s Order.

Author: conorlarkin  (22570 Posts - Original UHND Member)
Posted at 1:53 pm on Apr 19, 2026
View Single

Perhaps Pope Leo is better suited to discuss theology vs JD Vance.

Link: https://web.sas.upenn.edu/discentes/2024/10/13/practical-just-war-st-augustine-his-framing-of-just-war-theory/

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