Sorry violating board rules but asking so called progressive Catholics a question makes them mute.
See they know that Jesus, the son of God, who made us all would not standby and watch innocent babies murdered at birth. They have no answer. But they support politicians like our Catholic President and Speaker that do. It’s a simple question they won’t answer.
Replies to: Sorry violating board rules but asking so called progressive Catholics a question makes them mute.
Let me try to answer you for them . Progressive Catholics are Catholics without God - Humanists.
Thank Catholic grassroots activism, Catholic principles are secularized by progressive catholics, effectively making Catholicism humanism. Social teaching in Catholicism is indeed inclined to humanism. But its social goals are to serve/please God. For Progressive catholics (humanists), these social goals are changed to serve humankind.
His avoidance of the question speaks volumes. He knows he is wrong. He can't defend his position.
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"But they support politicians like our Catholic President and Speaker that do"...from PB's initial
post...he's speaking of the folks he calls Progressive Catholics...
What I'm saying and reporting is that our Pope Francis ALSO SUPPORTS JOE BIDEN...so, I'm not diverting, deflecting or evading...that's a direct response that shows Progressive Catholics (laity) are in league with our Pope...can't do any better than that.
You still won’t answer will you? Yes or no? Would Jesus approve of partial birth abortion.
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HE never said a word about it...you're free to assume whatever you want...just don't expect everyone
to nod in agreement when it comes to governing a pluralistic nation...where even the majority of Catholics don't agree with you.
Last post by me on this topic. When did the Catholic church become a democracy. Just
because numerous Catholics, as you say, agree with your position doesn’t mean they are correct.
I’ll try this with you suppose Jesus was asked if it’s fine to kill a human baby’s life at birth that was a gift from God to the mother or couple?
What do you believe he would say? Try to be honest for a change.
And don’t give me this majority of Catholics believe it’s fine than it’s fine with you.
If the majority of Catholics and Christians approved of slavery did that make it fine too? Would Jesus approve of Slavery?
At least you're willing...however obliquely...to delve into "WHY" the majority of Catholics and
Americans feel the need to allow abortions to be legal. As I've posted before, I can't think of a single woman I've ever met who doesn't "melt" at the sight of a newborn baby...so why do so many of these same women 'conscience' abortion?...the attached link, which I've also posted by an ND graduate, goes directly to the question of "WHY". While she has her own unique perspective, it is IMO very close to what drives the majority to favor legalization of abortion...here is her concluding statement...(but please read the whole article)...
"To attempt to outlaw abortion without caring whether or not abortions will occur illegally or without caring why so many women see abortion as so essential to their freedom, health and happiness is shortsighted. And it is that blindspot that makes the pro-life political apparatus appear so misogynist and cruel to its political counterparts. A movement that wants to end abortions has to listen to the voices of women demanding change. It has to seriously consider why women—particularly impoverished women—see abortion as a necessity.
Until all economic and social structures of sexism are transformed and the patriarchal mores in our hearts and relationships are converted, there will always be unwanted pregnancies. And if there are unwanted pregnancies, there will be abortions.
To think otherwise is wishful thinking."
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One other thing...IMO the entirety of "Pro-Choicers" want to see abortion numbers decline as rapidly as possible...and if our Catholic 'Magisterium' would start supporting contraceptives...like the VAST majority of U.S. Catholics do...we'd get there a lot quicker...btw, I have it on good authority that during Vatican II, when 'Contraceptives' was a major issue with an authorized commission studying it...the voting by theologians and prelates was overwhelmingly in favor of them...until a powerful conservative minority in the Vatican re-wrote the narrative to their liking...just another reason why "Open Debate" within the Church is essential.
PB...you brought up a critically important issue that won't be going away anytime soon, especially with our SCOTUS hearing the Mississippi case next month...so, thanks for doing that. After taking a breath, maybe we can have a discussion on what fossil fuel uses make sense and which ones need to be quickly phased out...(hint: I'm expecting jets to continue using 'Jet A' for quite awhile)
Link: https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2021/09/08/texas-sb-8-heartbeat-abortion-women-241365
Thou shall not kill.
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Tyrone would like to point out that the first set of tablets were smashed by Moses...& since no one
knows what God actually wrote on them...it is entirely conceivable that anything goes.
Ty always shifts to a different or tangential topic when he has no answer. Francis was clear when he
called abortion "murder" this summer.
Ty takes as gospel all of the political socialism of Francis for which catholics have no obligation to follow, yet he ignores his dogmatic statements which he is obligated to follow. but given his stated views, he has obviously chosen to ignore Popes Paul, JPI, St JP II, and Benedict in the past, and will do so again when this pope is gone.
Exactly. But, he will continue to try to draw Catholics away from the Church.
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That's a slanderous statement, Ned, especially when the MAJORITY of Catholics think more like me.
See attached link.
Link: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/20/8-key-findings-about-catholics-and-abortion/
That is your goal. Get more to think like you, instead of more to think like Catholics.
Do you believe abortion is an intrinsic evil or not?
As I told Baron..identifying an."Intrinsic Evil" is only 'Step 1.'...there is much more required in
order to reach a "Prudential Judgement" on national and global leadership qualifications...read Bishop McElroy's statements...fully...including those that specifically address his views on Prudential Judgement, and why such types of decisions are above all others...i.e. just stopping at the level of knowing something is an "Intrinsic Evil" in itself, is insufficient in properly making an informed judgement/decision.
My goal is to raise awareness of what's required to make a truly informed decision...frankly, I believe that the majority of Catholics have already intrinsically risen to that level, while too many on this board refuse to even engage in a discussion of what it's about...are you willing to have that discussion...or are you going to dig in your heels, close your ears and say nasty things about those who don't share your view.
BTW, regardless of what you say, this 'discussion' is going to carry on...with you or without you.
One other thing...on the abortion issue, my goal is to fight for ways to reduce them...without tearing the country apart in the process...that's an integral part of "the discussion".
Pope Francis has just recently called Joe Biden a "Good Catholic"...told him to receive communion.
That should be enough to resolve your concern regarding U.S. politicians who represent the entire population.
In the mind of this Pope, Old Joe is a good Catholic. He would also say that about Hunter..........
The Pope's religion is his politics. That very religion has crept into every Catholic university in America and many Catholic high schools too. Bishops, Cardinals, and many Pastors are all on board. It took awhile, but the left has taken over the Church and the 50% of Catholic sheep go along for the ride. Misrepresenting the teachings of Jesus. The left destroys every single thing they touch, without exception. The thing is, when this Marxist Pope leaves, these Marxist Cardinals will vote in the same thing again.
I'm curious. Was that before or after Biden pooped his pants?
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He just had a bad reaction to the smoke being blown up his ass...
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Diversion.
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How is that a diversion?...If our Pope believes Joe Biden is a Good Catholic, then PB has no case.
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You won't answer his question. Your post has nothing to do with his question.
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Going off on Biden claim tangent is how. Answer PB's Q on abortion.
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This is not about ME...it's about how Catholics should evaluate their political candidates and
leaders, like Joe Biden...PB specifically made reference to them in his initial post, and I've given substantial evidence that Progressive Catholics are justified in supporting him...as is our Pope.
Why won't you at least discuss WHY Pope Francis said Joe Biden is a "Good Catholic", even while knowing his statements on the abortion issue?
You cannot bifurcate catholicism. Don't care about Biden's private conversation claims. Answer PB.
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I care deeply about my Pope's views...especially when they impact my life in the USA...and his view
of Joe Biden should influence you as well...why do you run from it?
Can’t you answer a simple question? Would Jesus approve of partial birth abortion? Why won’t you
answer a simple question?
There are no such records...especially relating to such details...we can get there later.
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That was according to Joe. The meeting was private,no cameras,& you have it on word of a serial liar
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There's that word you throw around so easily...if the Vatican wanted to deny it, they would...but,
after several days, they still haven't...leads any rational thinker to conclude it really did happen...just stop making up stuff to conform to your vision of reality.
When you get ANY report from a credible news source (other than the Babylon Bee), that contradicts the Pope's reported comments, post it...until such time...bite your tongue...HARD.
Btw, as a confidential meeting,Vatican can say nothing regardless-esp if confessor role was used.
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You're making more and more assumptions...do you really think that Biden would "poison" his
relationship with Pope Francis by coming out with such a statement that was diametrically opposed to what the Pope actually said to him???? Think about it.
Do you really believe the pope would launch a full scale PR offensive against Biden.
No. In all probability the pope said something somewhat reassuring to joe which he interrupted as "the pope said I'm a good catholic". This whole thing is stupid. Joe's not following the teachings of the church and the pope likely never validated him with you're a good catholic.
Jesus Tyrone give it up...maybe YOU need to think about it. So stupid.
As an attorney, you should be a logical person...how could Joe Biden ever have a relationship with
Pope Francis again if he grossly misstated his (Francis') opinion of him?...and for what gain?...he (Biden) would only suffer for it later...this is "Politics 101" level stuff...just because we have grown accustomed to a complete idiot over the previous four years, doesn't mean EVERYONE has to act that way.
What relationship are you speaking of? Pope Francis is an alien to Biden.
Francis is political but not a politician. He doesn't swim in those waters. He's not going to come out and openly refute anything. Unless it was seriously egregious. This ain't it. It's stupid.
This is much ado about nothing. Biden just made more out of a generalized comment by the Francois most likely. It's no big deal and frankly I don't really care. But for you to accept something as gospel from someone who regularly tells tall tales is well....telling.
That's a gracious exit on your part...I'm disappointed that you have no interest in understanding
why so many people, including Bishops and our Pope would welcome Joe Biden as President and consider him a "Good Catholic"...that 'Closed Mind' attitude is not helpful...
Again...the MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS in the USA are making a "Prudential Judgement" when it comes to the Abortion issue...and you won't even entertain a discussion as to WHY that is.
Sooner or later, I believe you'll have to join in.
Francis said it's murder. Facilitating murder is a mortal sin.
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That's 'Step 1'...now ask yourself why Francis refers to Joe Biden as a Good Catholic...don't just
stop at Step 1...maybe you could also take some time to read what Bishop McElroy had to say on the matter.
Look, I know how deeply this cuts you...but believe it or not, I'm here to HELP get us all to fewer and fewer abortions...hopefully with good discussion you'll come to understand that.
BTW, for folks who parade under the banner of "Pro-Choice"...it includes the 'choice' to fight for ways to dramatically reduce the number of abortions.
He didn't.
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Here's a brief video from their introduction...at the very least, Pope Francis appears genuinely
pleased to share Joe's company...they spoke for longer than anticipated on issues of deep concern for the Pontiff...issues that I would contend contribute to an overall "Prudential Judgement" on whether or not Joe Biden is a "Good Catholic"...even while knowing his position on another issue they didn't speak about...Abortion.
Does this start to shake any of those marbles in your head?
Link: https://youtu.be/yNhD5nkUqFc
Answer PB's question.
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Show the proof - after you stop evading and answer PB's question.
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It's not a diversion or evasion...Pope Francis called Joe Biden a "Good Catholic"...I have several
reputable news accounts to support the statement...you have nothing to refute it.
The Pope's statement succinctly addresses PB's challenge...he knows very well what Biden's stance is, and he said what he said...the challenge to you, Ned, PB and others, is to open your minds and endeavor to understand WHY he said what he said...
I've given you genuine cause to re-assess your opinion...don't just spend your time complaining to the messenger...I genuinely sympathize with your plight, but if you'll be open to a discussion, I believe we'll get to a mutually satisfactory agreement, which in turn leads to what we all want...ever decreasing numbers of abortions.
No you don't. You have news sources repeating Joe's version of events.
This is nothing more than an Amtrak riding corn pop yarn spun by grandpa...
You honestly believe Joe Biden (and Handlers ;-)) would shoot himself in the foot with a public lie
that embarrassed Pope Francis'...what kind of twisted world are you living in?
He doesn't think it's a lie. He thought it happened. See corn pop.
You're making WAY too much of this Tyger. Anyway this is beyond silly. You have no more proof it happened than I do that it didn't. But given Biden's history I'm comfortable saying it probably didn't happen at all.
And we're done here.
Oh...so the Pope was speaking Ex Cathedra?
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Answer PB's question on abortion. Enough evasion. Not interested in Biden's claims.
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Answer my question. Can you?
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Good? Not a GREAT Catholic? Puhshaw!
Joe's no catholic nor is Nance. Boom.
LOL!...Now you're going to tell me that the last Papal Election was STOLEN and Benedict is the Pope
Now who's the "Cafeteria Catholic"?...maybe you can read Bishop McElroy's article on Prudential Judgement counselor and figure out what that means...and perhaps why Pope Francis said what he said while knowing the entire context of what Biden's position vis-a-vis the USCCB.
Answer my question. Can you?
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It's an impossibility...there are zero references to Jesus speaking on abortion...you have a belief
in an absolute rejection of any and all abortions under any and all circumstances...if that's what you mean to convey as a "Question", then I'll side with the majority of Catholics and say "NO", I don't agree...there are "Prudential Judgements" that come into play...just as Bishop McElroy stated...and assumedly, Pope Francis acknowledges...
Let's at least have a conversation...based on some reading by you and others, about why the majority of Catholics...after all these years and decades...feel this way.
Pope Francis quite clearly called abortion murder this summer. Murder - he chose the word carefully.
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Hey only GREAT Catholics go to heaven. Sinatra, John Gotti, Tony Soprano.
You know...the biggies.
How could you leave off Eddie DeBartelo and JFK?
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Also forgot Tom Cruise. My bad.
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And Teddie Kennedy, Mario Cuomo, and Russ Bufalino.
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Just curious...how is this diversion going to get us back to the thread topic?...i.e. Biden/Pelosi
being good or even great Catholics.
Because you won’t give your opinion on partial birth abortion
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When I discovered it was a fairytale I stopped taking it seriously.
I usually live for your posts. They're like UHND Open oxygen....
You do indeed have a penchant for "Whimsy", and display it at the oddest moments...it is what it is.
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Are coming on to me?
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Not a chance...sorry.
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Answer PB's question. Stop evading.
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See my comments above...
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For 1rst time ever, no link when it would actually be useful?! Evader. Answer PB's question!
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"See they know that Jesus, the son of God, who made us all would not standby and watch innocent
babies murdered at birth."...it's really a statement of PB's belief and a challenge to Progressives to accept or reject it. Since no such accounts exist regarding Jesus' teaching on this issue, it's speculative...right?...plus its a conversation stopper, when conversation is desperately needed (witness the majority of Catholics who support some level of Abortion).
But we could also apply that 'system' to waging wars...would Jesus stand by and let us kill others by the millions (including the bombing of pregnant women), or reject ANY killing?...for a time the Catholic Church entertained a "Just War" stance...such things...including Abortion are complex...let's start giving that complexity its "due".
HEY EVERYONE! Chad wants to make sure everyone has read his thread. SEE 3 SPOTS BELOW.
Thank you.
[Remember .... some children need reinforcement and recognition. We are all here to support Chad!]
You evaded his question then too.
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Well done Conor
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Conor is an asshole. I guess that makes you his friend.
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Another Conor shuffle / non-answer.
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And yet still no answer from you about my post. Totally expected.
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