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An ESPN talking head was at it again re: the Pierce/Bird comparison yesterday

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:21 am on Jun 10, 2008
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I believe the quote went something like, "I've always thought Larry Bird was overrated. I mean, Bird was a great scorer, don't get me wrong. But Paul Pierce is the total package."

Any chance ABC/ESPN will stop shilling so hard for this series and regain a modicum of editorial integrity? Newsflash: this is NOT the 80s Lakers vs. the 80s Celtics. It's a piss-poor facsimile of the original, and the sooner you guys realize it the better.


Replies to: An ESPN talking head was at it again re: the Pierce/Bird comparison yesterday


Thread Level: 2

One player from these two teams would start on the 80s squads

Author: Charlie Jrs Headset (4330 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:30 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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and that's Kobe Bryant.

Try to find someone to replace if you want to include KG.


#KELLYOUT
Thread Level: 3

Anybody who would take Garnett over McHale if you needed points

Author: JohnDoe (1214 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:11 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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is nuts. McHale was one of the best low-post scorers I've ever seen. The dude was money and his all-time FGP backs up my assertion.

I'll give the nod to Garnett defensively, but not by a whole hell of a lot. McHale was no slouch on the defensive side of the ball.

If it's game 7 of an NBA Championship Series, McHale starts the game if I were coach. Garnett would see the game if you needed a defensive stop. Garnett is good. McHale was great.


Thread Level: 4

Really?

Author: NDNEIL (6352 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:35 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I don't see how you seriously say that. I love McHale and there is no doubt he was a very good player. But KG can do things McHale couldn't even think about doing (one of which was passing). McHale may have been a slightly better scorer then Garnett, maybe. After that, KG gets the nod in almost every other area.

Put McHale in a situation where he doesn't have one of the top 5 players of all time along side of him and we would have probably forgot about him by now.


Thread Level: 3

I agree with Neil and Bettis. Both Kobe and KG would easily be starters.

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:23 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I'd almost take KG on one leg over McHale.

Thread Level: 3

I would start KG over McHale

Author: NDNEIL (6352 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:41 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I hate these comparisons into different eras but I htink I would start KG over McHale at PF. Lets not penalize the talents of these players just because the NBA isn't as exciting as it was in the 80's. That makes you sound like crazy baseball fan who claims Babe Ruth was the best player ever even though they never saw him play once.

KG has averaged more points, rebounds, steals, and assist per game. McHale did have a better FG%. Not only that, imagine KG playing along side one of the best passers to ever play the game.


Thread Level: 3

I think KG could start over both McHale and AC Green...

Author: Bettis6 (1444 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:39 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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...and I think Riley and Jones would start KG over them. IMO, of course.

He's a better rebounder and defender than both. He's also better offensively than Green. I'd rate McHale over him offensively though, at least in the post. Their outside jumpers are equally consistent, yet McHale developed some pretty good range late in his career.

Imagine KG playing with Bird or Magic, he'd be that much better.


Thread Level: 4

I think Gasol would get on the court.

Author: saNDiego03 (2555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:15 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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Worthy and the like were great complements to Magic, but I think Gasol is incredibly talented and would get on the court, though if he were on the showtime Lakers going against those 80's Celtics, he might wind up in a body bag.

Thread Level: 5

You, sir, are insane

Author: Charlie Jrs Headset (4330 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 5:35 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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who would you replace if you are going to put Gasol in the starting 5?

#KELLYOUT
Thread Level: 6

I think Gasol is the 4th best player after Magic, Kareem, and Kobe.

Author: saNDiego03 (2555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:50 am on Jun 11, 2008
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If you're making a roster between the showtime Lakers of the 80s and today's Lakers. I might even take Lamar Odom over James Worthy too.

Thread Level: 4

As a PF, Id take McHale

Author: Charlie Jrs Headset (4330 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:21 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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KG hates being on the block, and is nearly useless in the post. And in the pressure situations, KG shies away from the big shot. He always has.

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

#KELLYOUT
Thread Level: 2

But it was Bob Ryan that made the initial comparison

Author: Chris94 (27088 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:32 am on Jun 10, 2008
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I agree that whoever made that statement is a dolt.

But it was Bob Ryan - nobody knows more about Boston sports - who initially said that Pierce is the most explosive offensive player ever to put on a Celtic uniform.

Note, by the way, that he didn't say Pierce was better than Bird - just more explosive.


Thread Level: 2

My guy, Bill Walton, pooh-poohed it yesterday....

Author: Bettis6 (1444 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:22 am on Jun 10, 2008
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He basically said the comparison was a joke. I couldn't agree more.

Ratings are up about 40% over last year, so they should just all calm down. Well, it might not be saying much as last year's final was between SA and Cleveland.

OT: Have there ever been a gayer moment in sports then when Vlade Divac ran into Magic's arms like a puppy dog looking for approval?


http://www.geocities.com/anukiya/lkcapt2.jpg

Thread Level: 3

Bill Walton is right up there with Brent Pussburger in terms of shitheadedness

Author: TontoGoldstein (11011 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:33 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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Bettis, even a busted clock is right twice a day. Denounce Walton now or be forever marked.

If you support Obama you are a racist.
Thread Level: 4

What if I tell you that Stephen A. Smith is my second favorite analyst?

Author: Bettis6 (1444 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:41 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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These two guys crack me up. Maybe it's comic relief or something like that.

Thread Level: 5

I'll light a candle for you in church. Dear Lord.

Author: TontoGoldstein (11011 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:46 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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(no message)

If you support Obama you are a racist.
Thread Level: 6

I'm not a big fan of tweeners...

Author: Bettis6 (1444 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:57 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I either like announcers that are over the top and bombastic like Smith and Walton, or nuts and bolts guys like Rick Majerus.

Thread Level: 7

So I gather -

Author: TontoGoldstein (11011 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:58 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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(no message)

If you support Obama you are a racist.
Thread Level: 3

Re: My guy, Bill Walton, pooh-poohed it yesterday....

Author: STLRamFan1 (92 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:17 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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Lets get this straight the ratings are up 40% only because the Lakers are in the Finals. If they were not there they would be only marginally ahead of last years clunker. This year's Finals are at the highest level since...of course the last time the Lakers were there, in 2004.

Thread Level: 4

Do you think Boston has anything to do with it?

Author: Bettis6 (1444 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:25 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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Just wondering if you think the Celtics have anything to do with the ratings spike from last year, or if it's only because of the Lakers.

Thread Level: 5

Re: Do you think Boston has anything to do with it?

Author: STLRamFan1 (92 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:25 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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Well I would say 95% of it is the Lakers. If the Lakers played the Pistons or even the Cavs the numbers would be almost certainly the same (which would be just like those in 2004). The Lakers are the best drawing team in terms of television and attendance for the NBA.

Thread Level: 6

There are 10 teams that outdraw LA in terms of straight-up arena attendance

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:49 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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And that doesn't include the fact Staples Center officials count the one-quarter of the fans that don't get to the game until mid-first quarter and don't stay past mid-fourth quarter.

The Lakers are ratings gold. But they're no more than a mid-pack team when it comes to hometown loyalty, and even then LA has to be winning. I've said it before and I'll say it again: USC Trojan fans make for easy LA Laker fans. Same bandwagon frontunner mentality.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 7

Re: There are 10 teams that outdraw LA in terms of straight-up arena attendance

Author: STLRamFan1 (92 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 6:20 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I not talking about straight up attendance b/c obviously some teams have bigger arenas (I believe the Bulls are one of them and they sell out every game). I'm talking about the average road, where they fill up 98% of road arenas even selling out in Atlanta. Your comments about Laker fans are of course asinine. If there is one team that all of Los Angeles rallies around and is loyal to in every sense of the word, its the Lakers. You have obviously never lived out here or not for very long, but your comments about USC and also UCLA aren't out of line at all when it comes to the bandwagon fans.

Thread Level: 3

Your guy? That saddens me, Bettis.

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:28 am on Jun 10, 2008
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I'll probably never get past his full-on fellating of the Knicks during their bitter mid-90s rivalry with the Pacers. My favorite Walton moment was when he said in Game 1 of the '95 Eastern Conference semifinals, with the Knicks leading by six with 18.7 seconds to go in the game, "Indiana is going to have to play a lot better than this to beat New York."

Reggie Miller then proceeded to score 6 points in 3 seconds and 8 points in 11 seconds to win the game.


This message has been edited 3 time(s).

Thread Level: 4

Does anyone else see the resemblance?

Author: IrishinMass (554 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:10 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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Thread Level: 5

Hey now, my Knicks hatred is tenuous as it is

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:36 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I realize your football team is gunning for the undisputed title in my Hatred HOF and all, but can't we just enjoy the offseason?

Thread Level: 6

Fair enough.

Author: IrishinMass (554 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:49 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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But I hated hated hated HATED Reggie Miller when I was younger (I'm 28 now). But he's a guy that looking back, I've actually gained quite a bit of respect for.

Oh, and Mac, we agree on one thing. Those early 90's Knicks teams might be my most hated basketball team of all time. The '88 Pistons are up near the top of the list, but just the thought of John Starks makes me want to punch my office wall.

(I was too young to hate the mid-80's Lakers, but I'm sure they'd be on top of the list if I could remember many of the games.) The '86 Mets on the other hand....uggh, painful flashbacks of games I do remember...


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 4

Reggie Miller is my favorite player ever.

Author: jakers (9607 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:26 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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It always sickens me that people want to talk about Karl the Statutory Rapist Malone and how sad it is that he never got that title, but it gave me a massive erection when he and Gary Payton were denied after L.A. assembled that dream team for the '03/'04 season (which should have been prevented), and Miller doesn't get the credit he deserves in that discussion.

As easy as it is to recall him putting daggers through N.Y. like that (among other squads over the years), my personal favorite memory of him was the '99 postseason, when the referees handed the Knicks the conference finals on a plate of shit and Mark Jackson was single-handedly giving the worst performance of any postseason player I've ever seen, Miller sat right up there on the press-conference podium at the end of the final loss and openly apologized to the state of Indiana and Pacers fans for his play in the series.

The catch is that he'd single-handedly kept them in that series by making every play possible, while the rest of his team - Smits, Jackson, et al - looked like horseshit, and then stood up at the end and took full responsibility for "failing" the fans. He was all balls.


Thread Level: 5

I really admired Reggie too.

Author: saNDiego03 (2555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:13 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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He was really overlooked for the era that he played in. You're right about the guys around him being a total shitshow, though the two Davis' were the perfect pylons to set up his screens.

He was also a scrappy defender. Only Joe Dumars gave Jordan more fits.


Thread Level: 5

You're preaching to the choir

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:45 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I was at Conseco Fieldhouse for Reggie's last home game when he just broke down in tears. The guy was all heart and doesn't get the credit he deserves. He was the only guy I've ever seen get under Jordan's skin, with MJ once remarking, "Playing against Reggie is like chicken fighting."

Reggie was the last great pure shooter, with the prettiest jumper in the league and a reputation for working harder for 40 minutes than any player. I would almost go so far to call him the best player without the ball I've ever seen play the game besides maybe Bird. Yeah, a lot of players just got their shots by trumping everyone with their pure athleticism and ability. But Reggie was this scrawny little thing that just outhustled you. He'd be double-teamed and still find that screen to give him separation. When he was in the zone, Reggie was almost as fun to watch as His Airness.

That '99 Eastern Conference Final still pisses me off. From Larry Johnson's 4-point play in Game 3 to the Game 6 free throw disparity of something like 35-8, it was, as you say, a plate of shit.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 6

Sadly, it didn't even have to come to that.

Author: jakers (9607 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:59 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I'll say it again: I never watched Mark Jackson until that conference finals, and I couldn't help but notice that he was the worst player I had ever seen. Seriously - the guy was terrible. I don't even know what the move was that he kept doing, but he'd get the ball well outside of the paint, try to somehow back himself up closer to the basket, and either a second defender would swat the ball away from him, or he'd get stoned and turn around an brick something that appeared to be a shot of some sort. He was killing them. Then I find out he's supposed to be come kind of star, and couldn't believe it. He sucked.

And of course, if Ewing hadn't gotten injured, N.Y. wouldn't have changed up their offense to be based on fast breaks, which ended the hopes of a team featuring the Smits/Jackson combo.


Thread Level: 7

Ahh yes, the Mark Jackson ass-back maneuver

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:34 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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It was a kind of mini-Shaq move--indefensible against smaller defenders, but utterly ridiculous when Jackson was matched up with a guy who had an ounce of size and/or athleticism. Didn't the Knicks do something like put Camby on Jackson in that series?

Seriously though, he was a decent PG, just not in that series. I would take half of a Mark Jackson over a whole Jamaal Tinsley.


Thread Level: 4

Throw it DOWN Big Fella!

Author: Lady_Irish_27 (3454 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:09 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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(no message)

Thread Level: 4

Yeah, I know. I used to hate him....

Author: Bettis6 (1444 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:37 am on Jun 10, 2008
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but ever since the beginning of the year, he's been laying it on thick regarding the C's, starting on opening night. So, I'm back in his camp. I guess it's a homer thing.

BTW, I absolutely hate the Knicks. I rooted against them at every turn during the Ewing years. I dislike the Knicks more than any other team in the league.


Thread Level: 5

I probably hated the Knicks in the mid to late 90s more than I hate the Patriots now

Author: McSweeney (17753 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:52 am on Jun 10, 2008
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Between the Game 7 intentional foul call against Reggie in '94 and Larry Johnson's 4-point play in '99--two of the most ridiculous calls I've ever seen, let alone game-deciding calls--I've long since bought into the big market vs. little market conspiracy.

Put it this way: I didn't mind the OJ Bronco chase interrupting the Knicks-Rockets finals because it was a relief to watch someone less evil in my mind than John Starks.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 6

I remember that moment very well...

Author: Bettis6 (1444 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:01 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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Me and couple of buddies were watching the picture in picture of the game and the chase.

I totally buy that the league wanted the Knicks in the Finals. From Ewing, to Mason, to Starks, to Spike, to Riley, I loathed them.

Starks going like 3 for 17 or something like that in Game 7 was awesome. He was a total punk.


Thread Level: 2

For all the people that have tried to start a new football league

Author: Slacker (7011 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:40 am on Jun 10, 2008
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I can't believe no one has done it for pro basketball. Use international rules and play 40 games with a playoff.

I truly can't believe people watch this crap.


Thread Level: 2

Bird was not a complete player?

Author: NDNEIL (6352 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:38 am on Jun 10, 2008
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That is a newsflash to me. Honestly before today, if someone asked me what a complete player was, Bird would have been an example I would have given. Now that I am informed by ESPN I won't make that mistake.

I mean, I guess 24.3 points a game, 6.3 assist per game, 10 rebounds a game, and 1.73 steals a game isn't a complete player.


Thread Level: 3

Re: Bird was not a complete player?

Author: STLRamFan1 (92 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:14 pm on Jun 10, 2008
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I can't get these comparisons either. Pierce will never put up the numbers all-around like Bird did and never did when he was the main guy for the last several years. And the point that people make about Pierce being explosive is beyond me. The guy has never been a great athlete and rarely finishes above the rim...not to mention his body looks similar to Kevin Love. If he got into better shape it would certainly help his lift.

Thread Level: 2

They're trying to sell the finals

Author: Fisher01 (6096 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:33 am on Jun 10, 2008
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Thing is, it would be a lot easier if they didn't start past 9pm eastern every frigging night. I cannot stay up until midnight to watch a game. And then they wonder why the ratings are so low.

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