Conor, Tyrone and others...the nonsense of our health professionals
So we were told if we got 70% vaccinated we could return to normal. Then it became 90% and boostered. Well, I did all this as part of the Pfizer trial in Savannah.
So tell me how the advice from health experts makes any logical sense:
1) The CDC survival rate for 18 and under is 99.998% - higher than the flu survival rate for this age group (I know - my dentist's 4-year-old daughter died of the flu 10 years ago). They are shown to be poor transmitters of the virus. Yet we're told they need to be vaccinated.
2) The virus primarily kills people 65 and over, yet all of us have to hunker down every time a new variant appears (see Cornell University).
3) Sports leagues made up of healthy young men who are statistically close to zero risk are shutting down.
None of this makes any logical sense. My doctor tells me (and maybe Baron can weigh in) we're going to have wave after wave of variants for years. We cannot keep mitigating for years every time a new variant pops up. That's no way to go about this. And not only that, by now 90% have antibodies (it was 83% back in May), meaning any future variants are likely to be relatively harmless.
Can you make a case we need to keep shutting things down for years, even among the vaccinated? And especially when everyone has made their choice to be vaccinated or not.
Replies to: Conor, Tyrone and others...the nonsense of our health professionals
The vaccine doesn't prevent transmission in fact it increases it
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In my state, only 1.6% of fully vaccinated people have had a breakthrough case.
My state reports daily metrics.
We have less a million people. 562k of the total population are fully vaccinated. This is 62% of the total population, which includes children.
Less than 9000 fully vaccinated people have tested positive for COVID, which is only 1.6 %. [I recognize that infected asymptomatic vaccinated people would not feel the need to get tested]
So, it is clear that getting the nation as close to 90% fully vaccinated is going to end the pandemic. And if boosters are needed to thwart new variants in the interim, then we get the boosters. In the interim, masking and social distancing are smart tools to minimize the number of breakthrough cases.
No one is shutting down. We ought not shut down, especially for the unvaccinated. It is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated, not the vaccinated.
Unvaccinated folks should be prohibited from entering any business or places open to the public: grocery stores, malls, sporting events, schools, office buildings, train stations, airports, restaurants, bars.
Treat the unvaccinated as if they have leprosy. [I wouldn’t even let unvaccinated adults into hospitals. They can die in the same alleys where the GOP sends poor young women to perform coat hanger abortions]
The unvaccinated folks are slowing us down from returning to full normalcy. Your premise is flawed because you coddle the unvaccinated, and pretend that there is no significant impact between being fully vaccinated vs not fully vaccinated. The difference is profound.
Your state is the state of denial 💉
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More lies.
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You're ignoring natural immunity
The fact is there probably are 90% with antibodies. It has been well established natural immunity is as good as vaccinated immunity. And yes, I realize natural immunity + vaccinated immunity is even better. I'm not against vaccines, obviously.
My point is I don't think health "experts" will recommend returning to normal for years, even when death rates are low. Case rates are all that seem to matter now. We see sports leagues still banning Covid-positive players even though they're young and vaccinated, and so is everyone around them. Cornell is 100% vaccinated and they shut down.
What angers me is it's clear vaccines work, but Cornell, our sports leagues, etc., have policies that act like they don't work. And too many health "experts" make recommendations with the exact same mindset. That's what pisses me off.
Cornell has over 900 cases.
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I now trust the medical establishment about as much as I trust voting.
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Omicron is running straight past natural immunity. Ask Sean Payton.
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Your bottom line point is reasonable.
Assuming there is 90% compliance with folks getting fully vaccinated (e.g. Cornell), then why go remote?
I agree. Perhaps universities feel a community responsibility to not be the source of asymptomatic super spreaders returning home for the holidays???
Don't know.
Wait until omicron arrives
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It officially arrived yesterday.
From local new website:
The Division of Public Health announced Friday the first four cases of the Omicron variant had been identified in Delaware earlier that day.
According to officials, routine testing of specimens by the Delaware Public Health Laboratory on December 17, 2021, identified two adults in their 30s, a teenager, and a child under the age of 10, all residents of New Castle County, were positive for the Omicron variant.
Two individuals had been vaccinated, two were unvaccinated, officials said. None had a known history of travel.
Delaware is now among 34 other states where the variant of concern had been identified.
“With cases of the Omicron variant detected in our surrounding states, it was only a matter of time until we detected this variant in Delaware,” said DPH Director Dr. Karyl Rattay. “We are closely watching the science around this new variant. While it is encouraging that most individuals infected with this strain have reported minor symptoms, we still have a lot more to learn about Omicron. Therefore, we need to do what we know works to combat all strains of COVID-19: get vaccinated, get tested when appropriate, wear a mask in indoor public settings, socially distance from others, and wash your hands regularly.”
Rattay also urged boosters, saying they may play a significant role in fighting this variant. Early results have shown a booster shot from Pfizer or Moderna was much more effective in combatting the Micron variant than two doses alone, officials said.
A winter surge, primarily tied to the Delta variant, has led to a spike in COVID-19 cases in Delaware over the previous month, officials said.
“While rising cases are a significant cause for concern, the public should understand that we have the public health tools in our toolbox to continue to fight this virus,” said Rattay. “Our data continue to show that new positive cases and hospitalizations are predominantly occurring among those who are unvaccinated. Vaccines remain the most critical tool to protect us against severe disease.”
You asked, so I'll give you my thoughts on this...
Let's start with your opening remark..."...the nonsense of our health professionals"...IMO, the tens of thousands of people at our CDC, NIH and FDA, and all the many other thousands of Infectious Disease scientists/clinicians around the world have spent decades developing strategies and technologies for combating the viral pathogens that nature throws at us...they have been quite successful in the past, and those same people are working to get us past COVID-19. The longer you persist in referring to those people as "nonsensical", the longer you will be aiding and abetting those who are extending this effort beyond what was needed...the unvaccinated.
As for your risk assessment...I checked today's COVID-19 data and it shows for the U.S....826K deaths over ~2 years (400K+/yr)...that's over 10x the average yearly Influenza toll for the last ten years. Moreover, as you must have seen repeatedly on the news (not just MSM) several states have recently experienced overwhelming cases requiring hospitalization and ICU care...to the point where they have had to request federal assistance (i.e. Doctors and Nurses)...this has never happened with Flu outbreaks in the recent past..or since 1918...if I have to emphasize the seriousness of this any further, I'm outta here ;-)...assuming you agree, then let's keep going...
You talk about young people having very low likelihoods of serious illness, and older people representing the majority of deaths...this is true...however...we live in a society where all age groups mingle...there's no way, short of internment camps to keep the most vulnerable age groups separated from the others. You'll have to take my word for it, but many millions of people over age 60 ar either working, vacationing or just playing golf amongst the younger members of society...they're not all in nursing homes...consequently, because COVID-19 is a very transmissible virus, it's incumbent on everyone to do the best they can to stop the spread...i.e. get vaccinated and mitigate (masks...social distancing)...until those 'modalities' achieve what's called an "Endemic" situation where COVID-19 is no more "Virulent" than the Seasonal Flu (e.g. one measure being death rate...on the order of ~35K/year)...I'm not saying that's a hard and fast target, but hopefully you get the picture...oh, let's not forget that all infected people can spread the disease, and many of the younger cohort will be asymptomatic, so yes, they are at low risk, but are also a potentially high risk for others they come in contact with who are older and not in world-class physical condition...(part of the reason Pro teams are cancelling games...they see local outbreaks among players and coaches and don't want to become mini-supers spreaders).
Note that as we speak, New York City has just experienced 20,000 COVID cases in ONE DAY...and as much as 20% is from the new Omicron variant...for a new variant to move from near zero cases to 20% in a matter of a couple of weeks is troubling....we can only hope that the cases don't lead to the same level of serious illness as Delta, but hope is not a strategy, so no change in vaccination or mitigation efforts is warranted until sufficient data is available...btw, perhaps because so many of the older members of society have gotten vaxxed and boosted, the case load in NYC has shifted to the lower age groups...we'll see what that means for ICUs shortly.
As for the future, who knows what will happen, but we know vaccines keep people out of ICUs and morgues...absolutely NO DEBATE on that point, so if we keep increasing the percentage of vaccinated people (all over the world), the sooner we'll get to a condition where COVID-19 is "Endemic", i.e. still around, BUT...the effects are largely mild, with a 'familiar' death rate (see above). How much restriction gets imposed depends on the numbers...how many hospitalizations, ICU beds and deaths are we seeing...you think you're frustrated and burnt out...how would you like to be our family ICU Doc and have to work your butt off every working day for two years straight, WITH RISK TO THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES, to try and save people who won't even save themselves with a simple shot in the arm?
Hang in there...and place your trust in the folks who have always dedicated their lives to keeping you as safe and healthy as possible...and thanks for participating in the Pfizer trials!!
First, thanks for answering
I saw a while back the majority of Covid patients in hospitals were either mild or asymptomatic cases. Too many people are being unnecessarily hospitalized. Cynics might point out maybe it's because hospitals still get an extra $13,000 per Covid patient. It's naive to think there's none of that going on.
I guess what I'm really asking is, does it make sense for Cornell, for example, to shut campus down even though everyone is vaccinated? Does it make sense for sports leagues to ban players, even though they're vaccinated and in a demographic that id statistically safe from this? Does it make sense for a young epidemiologist who's fully vaccinated and boostered, Dr. Bronwyn MacInnes, to avoid gatherings as she said she will do in a USA Today article?
Then what's the point of being vaccinated? Look. Variants are going to come in waves for years. If we're continually going to shut down for years every time a variant appears, then it shows fear and panic have replaced sound decision making.
If you look at Johns Hopkins COVID data graphics, you'll notice how hospitalization and ICU bed use
has ebbed and flowed with the virus surges...first the initial onslaught from the "Wild Type"...then from "Delta"...and now Delta + "Omicron"...throughout this pandemic, the ICU beds have been populated with Un-vaccinated patients...since the introduction of the vaccines this still true...again ~98% of those ICU cases are not vaccinated.
As for hospitalizations and charges for COVID...a) Doctors are NOT fudging their test results...that would be gross malpractice, and none of them are risking their careers to help the hospital make a few more bucks...b) the costs for COVID treatment can be quite high with several pulmonary, respiratory, infectious disease and cardiology specialists involved, along with special nursing care for those on ventilators...all this for days, weeks and even months per patient...that adds up and should be compensated...that whole mindset is a trope.
In the case of Cornell...ABSOLUTELY makes sense to shut down when 900 students suddenly test positive...virtually all of those kids will be headed to all parts of the country soon and represent threats to the unvaccinated communities they end up in. The fact that they are all vaccinated shows the transmissibility of the Omicron variant...but it also shows the vaccines' efficacy in keeping people from developing serious illness. I like that the university is requiring 10 days of isolation for those who tested positive, and assisting the others with info and guidance on how to conduct themselves when they leave (I imagine educating them on home testing, and how to spot symptoms early).
One more time...Vaccines keep people alive and out of hospital ICUs...that's a VERY BIG DEAL...and the PRIMARY reason why we have vaccines. It would be icing on the cake if we could eradicate the virus through vaccination, but that's not looking very probable, so our goal is to reduce the threat to one of "Endemic" proportions.
I guess we should all just be getting our recommendations from amateur epidemiologists like you
Fuck all those “smart” people with “expertise” and “training.”
Just listen to dumbasses. They’ll show us the way.
We should leave everything to the “smart” people.
This whole democracy thing is so misguided because only our highly educated elites really understand the world. The average working man has “deplorable” opinions about everything. These are not worthy of discussion. Thank god our high tech gurus can censor these clowns, lest their ignorance pollute the common discourse.
When it comes to complex problems like COVID-19, everyone benefits from the leadership of
knowledgeable experts in the field...you wouldn't want someone who thought Bleach and UV light, or Hydroxyqhloroquine were the solutions to our pandemic...would you?
You do know that more than 50% of the GOP believes the big lie?
Real smart folks.
And your beliefs are all 100% correct… right?
How sad to be infallible and have to live in a world with so many stupid people .
Nope, but I’m not out there with zero expertise criticizing those that have it and thinking I know
more.
Is there some special wisdom prevailing in the working men’s’ watering holes of places like Iowa, Wiscy, or Meechigan that should be apparent to all on these matters?
Ken Lay was smart. So too Jeff Skilling.
I think there is this assumption that smart people, experts if you will, are incorruptible.
As it stands, we are getting the advice from the political epidemiologists - just as bad or worse.
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They may be smart, but have little capacity to use sound logic
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They are trying to load an operating system into our bodies
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Your honor, I rest my case.
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We all should just say a little prayer for "Ef" and trust that someone is looking after him...
seriously...
Hate to tell you, ef adds more to this board with one of his
short,concise, to the point sentences, then you ever do, with with yr circular firing squad links, that go nowhere and just take up space.
Save yr pity for yourself, your the one that needs it. Stop lying and embellishing the fictional character yo purport to be. Your act is old
But there was a time when Ty went to civil rights march and shouted "fweedom!"
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