vaxxed and boostered so you don’t get seriously ill or die, while helping to crash our health care system?
If it were just the former I doubt I would care that much, people make their own dumbass choices and take the consequences, but the impact on our health care system could be grave. So do your nation a patriotic favor plague rats, if you are unvaxxed and get seriously sick, just man up and crawl into yer holes and go away.
if you aren't older or have comorbidities. They all seem to think it's fine to wait until there is more data available.
The real risk is the unvaxxed flooding the HC system which is gonna happen.
30% not vaxxed at all is a recipe for disaster with these variants.
I stop short at mandating it though.
enormous.
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And to be straight with us that the vaccine does one thing and one thing only - protect the person vaccinated.
We need to quit pretending vaccines are going to prevent the virus from spreading.
It protects against serious illness and disease.
Case counts are all that seem to matter to the Great Fauchino, and this concept is aided and abetted by an all-too-willing media.
So even though vaccines work to prevent serious illness and death, omicron case counts will be relatively high. And then 4-6 months from now another variant will pop up, leading to the predictable dire warnings from Fauchino and the media. And then another 4-6 months after that, etc
That is happening with the unvaxxed and is going to increase. Ordinarily I don’t care about morons who put their health at risk. I do care what it will do to the HC system and the economy. Repeating idjit nonsense like the Great Fauchino doesn’t change that truth.
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I will always respect the fears of others.
I do have some of my own.
And probably would be wise to have more... regarding a couple legal forms of self abuse.
Anyone who denies having any is lying to his or her self.
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If you are not in a class of people for whom covid is a death risk, then maybe you don't vaccinate because doing so would get you questionable protection (to you and to society at large) from covid but put you in a class of people for which a vaccination side effect is a death risk. I can see people making a rational decision for themselves going either way.
obviously trying hard not to face facts.
All over the world we're seeing numbers like 98% of ICU patients are unvaccinated...Google it for yourself if you have any doubt.
There is no rational excuse for not getting vaccinated.
Link: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
Singapore had the best chart, showing overwhelmingly ICU admissions were those 60 and over and paltry for those 50 and under.
Crafting policy by pretending all age groups are equally likely to face problems is sheer stupidity.
already gone over the myo/peri-cardio issue (i.e. virtually no hospitalizations)....this is not a coin flip or dice roll, Mark.
Older unvaccinated people are. The death numbers and hospitalizations still skew heavily towards this demographic, despite media portrayals that omit this crucial fact.
younger. My 27 year old healthy son in law almost died of it. There are enough unvaxxed young who get serious symptoms coupled with the rest to swamp the system. You have to be a moron to be completely unvaxxed in the face of what’s happening.
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out. Millions of doses have been given with safety, but yeah keep on making excuses.
Take your chance, but don’t burden the health system when it turns out you made the wrong call.
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They want children to get untested vaccines (and yes, I am using the word "vaccines" loosely here to include the Pfizer and Moderna shots), and that is kind of crazy. Not sure Biden, Harris, Chris94 and you would be embracing those statements if Trump had won, which is telling.
As for me, somethings the CDC say make sense, and I pay attention to those for me. But, I don't run around trying to force other people to do anything.
They are the top professionals in this area. But yeah, you know better.
And, more important than anything else, I have the right to control my own healthcare. I know you disagree with that, but that is why those who love freedom must strongly oppose people like you.
Just don’t feck up the HC system with your nonsense when you get sick.
The fact that you took the shots as a “healthy person” says all you need to know about the your BS construct.
I just didn't know you had to hold my balls while I coughed 10 times. Do you do that for everyone?
800K dead from covid in this country.
I win.
(I just typed this out while watching football, so I'm sure I will have to edit it up...especially for formatting to make it more readable.)
Generally, the principle is Risk = Probability x Harm (This is a commonly used decision making equation when you have imperfect information, it is an equation used in gambling, and it is the basis of Pascal's wager, among other things.)
So, looking at the risk of Covid:
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Risk of Covid = Probability of Contracting x Harm of Contracting
RC = PC x HC
PC is high. Covid is very contagious (apparently?...I just lived in a home with someone who had it, and I did not catch it, but, whatever...let's say contractability is high).
HC is very low for healthy people, but very high for other people.
So, for healthy people, RC = High x Low...so Risk of Covid is a mid level risk.
For elderly or sick people, RC = High x High...so Risk of Covid is very high for those people
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Benefit of Vaccination = Protection Gained - (Probability of Side Effect)(Harm of Side Effect)
BV = PG - (PSE x HSE)
PG is, apparently, not robust. You can still get covid easily, but it possibly diminishes the harm of covid (HC)...but if HC is already low, then diminishing HC is not a big deal for those people. If HC is high (e.g., elderly, or people with other comorbidities), then diminishing HC can be a big deal.
PSE is low. That is, side effects are rare.
HSE is potentially very high (e.g., myocarditis is serious business, and can kill you, so the harm of side effect is pretty high).
So, to calculate the Benefit of Vaccination for healthy people,
BV = Low - (Low)(High)...which is near zero, and possibly negative, so the benefit of vaccination is quite low or negative. It is rational for these people to not get vaccinated.
For people at high risk,
BC = Mid - (Low)(High)...so there is some benefit of vaccination for individuals with high covid risk.
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Granted, if your analysis is limited to "do what the Party says," the issue is more simple for you.
wine this evening and you're probably almost done with it...but don't just revel in the glow...do a little work...
On the issue of your most serious side effect concern...I DO have data (see link)...for myocarditis and pericarditis, slightly over 2M vaccinated individuals were studied...NO DEATHS and NO ICU hospitalizations...whenever you get around to "fleshing out" your equations, be sure to use the DATA that's in the linked report.
Link: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782900
they were healthy are clogging up ICU’s right now. You consider yourself healthy? Why did you get the shot then? This can make so called healthy people very sick and waste millions in HC resources. The risk from the jab is minuscule on the other side.
I got the shot because my personal variables, evaluated by my personal judgement, led to a rational decision to get vaccinated.
Other people have different variables, and they will evaluate those variables differently, so they will come to different decisions.
If you don't see individuals, but you only see groups such as political opponents and political allies, then the math is indeed very simple for you. Vaccination Decision = (What will help my political party) x (What will gain me points on the Open)
healthy. AmIrite? But you got it anyway despite that low risk? AmIrite again? So you essentially disregard your own BS analysis. AmIrite once again? You are a pathetic partisan.
Typical of the authoritarian Left, that is.
that compelled the shot? Or is it as I contend that your artificial construct is BS that you didn’t even follow?
I realize that an increasing lack of information makes people like you ever more confident in your position, but also thankfully, I'm fine for you to continue to live in ignorance.
own ludicrous construct there was no reason for you to get the shots unless you were “unhealthy” which you haven’t claimed to be. Ergo it’s yer usual BS as even you didn’t follow it.
My decision is only a problem if you make assumptions you are unqualfied and uninformed enough to make.
You are either unhealthy or the vax served no risk purpose for you.
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You really think your baseless assumptions about my health are more accurate than what I know about my health? I would suggest that it is far more likely that your baseless assumptions about me are wrong rather than what I know about myself being wrong.
here. You never have indicated you were unhealthy. If you are say it, but you won’t cause you likely aren’t.
You are starting to reach for insults now, and repeating yourself. That is a clear sign that you have nothing more to offer this discussion
It comes down to the fact that the only reason for you to have gotten the vax under your own construct is somehow you aren’t healthy. That’s your own box that you made. If you aren’t say it, but you won’t which makes me believe you don’t have health problems.
I have declined to characterize my health, and you have stated falsehoods about it, and then accused me of doing what you do. I assume people see through your troll-like behavior. We had a good discussion going, then you ran out of gas, and to hide that, you then you started making shit up and throwing insults. Typical Frank. You are not a very nice person. Feel free to post another lie and another insult, and then we can wrap this sub-thread up.
We know a 52-yr-old, healthy HS wrestling coach in Iowa who made the same calculations. Filled in the same made-up numbers.
Did not get vaccinated.
Does last week from Covid.
Thousands like him made the same foolish calculations.
Without vaxx, risk of catching and dying from CoVid is 1 in 100,000; with vaxx, 1 in 200,000.
Either way, risk is pretty low.
Link: https://qcovid.org/Calculation/
What does matter is what % of the unvaxxed are going to get sick enough to need acute hospital care at the same time as these variants surge? That is gonna be a grim picture for our HC system and economy.
Just because a coin can, and does sometimes, land on heads 5 times in a row, that does not mean that you should bet that it will do so.
…and then plugging them into equations and pretending it’s scientific.
It’s not. Look at your post. Look at its assumptions.
But, it is gratifying that we see how you define "science" now. For you, "science" seems to be something that supports your political position, and "not science" is something that you cannot use to support your political position.
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button. Your unscientific thinking has no "off" button either, always remains "on".
I don't think Jim is unique in that regard.
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Immunization from measles protects you from measles, and when enough people vaccinate, society at large is better protected.
Not so with the flu. Flu comes back year after year and never goes away, even if everyone gets vaccinated, and the vaccinated can still catch the flu. That is why it is legitimate to ask the Left how long the mask mandates and travel restrictions, etc. will continue. If it is until covid is beaten, then they don't have a plan for stopping any of the societal restrictions, and they will have to be voted out of office to bring things back to normal.