This is why Babbit got shot. She was leading a mob to where the lawmakers were being evacuated.
From Rep Gallego’s book:
One of his primary thoughts was that if they were attacked by rioters the younger members would have to work together to take them down. As Gallego walked with Representative Colin Allred, a Texas Democrat and a 6-foot-1 former linebacker for the Tennessee Titans, they agreed that Allred would tackle the first person to come at them and Gallego would take on the second. His only weapon, he writes in the book, was a pen.
One of Gallego’s enduring memories is of encountering a security supervisor as members of Congress were being ushered to safety who was telling two young Capitol police officers, “Anyone comes down this hall, you shoot them.” Looking at the young men, he recalled his time in combat and wondered if they would be willing to shoot if they had to. He writes that he considered asking them if they wanted to trade places before leaving to meet up with colleagues in a safe room.
Replies to: This is why Babbit got shot. She was leading a mob to where the lawmakers were being evacuated.
Was deadly force legally justified?
It is if an officer reasonably believes the subject poses a significant threat of serious bodily injury or death to themselves or others. I’m not sure a middle aged unarmed lady would scare most trained security personnel into feeling significantly threatened. Perhaps this should be a question for a jury.
If the victim were a BLM rioter, the guard might have had to sit in front of a jury.
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I've heard better arguments from Sydney Powell ;-)...let's see now, scores of rabid rioters and a
handful of police officers...the nation's un-armed Congressmen and women at the end of the hall...if the police officers can't wrestle all of them to the ground, what other option do they have?...I know!...I know!...their authorized service pistols...make any sense to you?
This was not an argument. It was a question given the legal standard.
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Note the 'winking eye'...I am not schooled in legal grammar...as others might say, I was pulling
your chain just a bit with the 'argument' remark.
.the point has been made several times, but I'll beat this dead horse one more time...scores of truly "rabid" rioters already have a broken door window to pass through...very few police officers...no way they could subdue the mob on their own...they are the last line of defense for preventing heaven-knows-what injuries - or worse - that might befall the Congressmen and women they are there to protect...only choice left is lethal force with a handgun. It would be nice to hear testimony as to whether warnings were issued over the "din" of that scene, but their (officers) duty was clear..."PROTECT" the Congressmen and women...no matter what.
Why only one shot and why at an unarmed middle=aged lady struggling to get through a window?
How come no other guards fired any shots?
This was a pure panic reaction.
He should be tried for manslaughter.
He didn’t panic due to an unarmed, middle aged woman struggling through a window.
That makes zero sense. No police officer panics from that. He reacted to the threat of a mob he could hear and see behind a locked door with a window breaking into a hallway where members of Congress were evacuating. She was leading that mob into the hallway. She knew he was there and had a gun. She climbed through the window anyhow. Who the F does something like that? The other officers who had been there were the real problem in leaving their positions at the door after reinforcements got there but before they were in place.
So he fired wildly? Or did he intend to kill?
Let a jury decide based on the evidence.
He intended to shoot her to stop the threat. It worked. No one attacked the lawmakers.
Stop being an ass. You really think if Pence or Trump were being evacuated through that hallway and someone part of a mob climbed through a window to get in there they wouldn’t have been shot by the Secret Service?
My after action criticism would be he should have issued a warning first like the officers in the
HOR chambers did to the rioters trying to breach those doors. Nonetheless, it was clearly a lawful shoot.
My other criticism would be the first 3 officers stepping aside when the reinforcements got there but before they were in place was a huge tactical mistake.
It's remarkable reasonable people can view that video...
And come to such opposite conclusions.
Actually Stark, reasonable people understand that the use of deadly force was clearly justified.
Reasonable people do not accept the premise that Ms. Babbitt had a right to be standing in that hallway in the first place.
She has crossed the line of "reasonableness" well before before being shot in the chest.
This is not a "reasonable minds can disagree" scenario. Not even close.
Oh I absolutely agree with you and Frank.
The video in "real time" looks bad. That's all I meant.
^^^this^^^
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Not on legality if you are knowledgeable and fair.
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Agreed.
The shoot itself was justified I believe. But the video looks bad. Appears to be a point blank execution. No way the officer could know if she was armed. But assuming she successfully breached that door its quite clear she could have been subdued before she could open the door to others. And certainly neutralized before reaching a lawmaker inside.
But...before you freak out...no way she should have been there in first place. Play stupid games....
No he didn’t know if she was armed or not. The real threat wasn’t just her, but the group breaching
the door into the hallway where the evacuation was occurring. You can hear what that crowd was yelling before the breach. They were a clear threat to those evacuating through that hallway. He made a very quick decision and it was justified under the law. A warning first would have been better. That’s what the officers guarding the chamber did with the assholes trying to breach those doors. But the shoot was legal based in the video evidence.
What amazes me are the continuing efforts to downplay what happened that day. That group was acting like a lynch mob threatening those lawmakers. Yet MAGA nation treats them like hero’s. Makes me want to puke.
Agreed! I suspect his reaction was out of panic.
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I have repped and interviewed cops who have killed perps and have sat on a shooting review board.
It’s almost always a split second call. The officer clearly reacted to the door being breached by one of the rioters. He knew there was a group trying to break through that door to the hallway where the evacuation was occurring. When the first one actually breached into that hallway he shot. Clearly a lawful shoot. A warning would have been optimal but Babbit had heard he had displayed his weapon. The tactical error that caused the death was what I said before, the first three officers guarding the door leaving before reinforcements were in place.
She wasn't an anxious shopper, trying to be the first one into Best Buy on Black Friday.
She had already breached 3-4 lines of police at the US Capitol, before she was even at the door -- clearly on notice that law enforcement, was holding the line. Hence, the officer drawing his firearm, followed by fellow insurgents yelling "He has a gun!"
Again, there was ample justification to have employed deadly force, well before the insurgents entered the building.
Yet, you believe the officer who righteously ended Ms. Babbitt should be tried, and let a jury figure it out?
Without question if she is leading a mob of others which she was to the area that’s being evacuated.
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Question of fact. Let a jury decide.
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Uhm no, there is no question. Clear video evidence of it. You are an attorney, yes?
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Any evidence that she was leading? Genuine question.
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Yep, she was the one who breached the locked door to the area.
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I just watched conor's video in the range he indicated. I can't blame the guy for shooting.
I can see why others are arguing he shouldn't have shot. After all, you shoot someone through a door in DC, and you will likely be arrested.
At the same time, those people had definitely chosen to risk their lives to do that.
I hadn't seen that before. This makes me think there was someone else shot. Only one of them can be Babbitt. Was she shot in the neck at this point?
Key footage is at 26:30 -- 28:30. A clear green light to use justifiable deadly force by police.
I hadn't seen that video before. Didn't realize she was trying to break through. Pretty stupid.
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Much of the vile treason is right there. Hope that the MAGA crew here are proud of their cohorts.
They were trying to hunt down those lawmakers and wanted to get at them and not let them “escape”.
Shameful and disgusting.
These are the same posters who believe George Floyd's criminal record justified deadly force.
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Same jerkoffs who wrap themselves in the flag and claim to be for “law and order”.
At least the antifa jerkoffs are honest about their hatred for our system.
You and your pals sure have a ton of hate for your fellow Americans. How come?
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..
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Isn't this the same officer who left his service revolver unattended in a Capitol bathroom?
Just asking for a friend.
Here's Frankie L wanting to convict Rittenhouse
Whatabout, whatabout, whatabout.
Plus I never said Rittenhouse was criminally guilty. I said that was for the jury.
I did say he was completely and reprehensibly morally guilty for what happened.
You remain as always, WRONG.
Link: https://forum.uhnd.com/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=2&msgid=42071
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Like Tyrone noted - “words fail to explain your thinking”
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Rittenhouse got attacked. Bobbit didn't attack anyone. Explain your own thinking.
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Nah she just breached a locked door and was leading a mob toward evacuating lawmakers.
Real patriot.
Really? You’re having difficulty with this? How come I’m not surprised?
Babbitt the fodder front of an insurrection mob breaking through barriers attempting to reach Congress to overthrow US democracy threatening death to the VP and others gets shot and killed while doing so by Secret Service agent protecting Congress.
Rittenhouse, a 17 yr old brings a rifle to a street protest about a perp shot in the back by a police officer and ends up killing and injuring a bunch.
Completely the same.
She was crawling thru a window, not going down a hallway,
Drama Queen.
And she was going to stay in that broken window frame forever?...words fail to explain your thinking
Unbelievable chaos awaited this nation had the rioters actually gotten their hands on our Congressmen and women...she, and anyone else, who breached that barricade needed to be stopped...the fact that the Capitol police were hugely outnumbered necessitated deadly force...prayers for Ashley Babbitt...she made a very poor choice that day.
When I address Frank, I would appreciate if he answers,
and not you. You have shown yrself to be a chronic and unabashed liar.
LOL...name one poster who waits for two other posters to finish their 'conversation' before joining
in ;-)...
As for the "Liar" barb...you and a couple of others throw that accusation with ease...present just one you think I posted....(Note: from Merriam Webster..."Lie (verb): to make an untrue statement with INTENT TO DECEIVE" (my emphasis added).
She was actually standing away from door. It was a random shot into a crowd. It hit her in the neck.
She fell to the floor immediately.
Whoa! That wasn't random. That was point blank in the head.
Yikes!
Agreed, based on the video conor showed. I had seen other video of someone getting shot.
In the one I saw, the woman was about 7 feet from a door (perhaps not that one), standing in a crowd of people. Perhaps the woman I saw get shot survived? I had always assumed the video I saw was of Babbitt. Now, I see that two people were shot, which I did not know.
We all saw the video that Jim just gave you...one of your poorest attempts at gaslighting, Ned.
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We know you gaslight, so I can definitely see why you would accuse others of it.
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Well, let's see here...I just exposed your fallacious statement...although I now understand it was
made because you had no idea what actually happened (that's a whole 'nuther issue ;-))...so, now it's your turn to backup your claim against me...have at it.
This might help your remembering.
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Link: Climbing through smashed window
did she have a gun?
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Crispus Attucks didn't have a gun either.
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Funny you would mention that. You know who defended those British troops……..wait for it……
John Adams, and got them off.
Heh. Yes, I did know that.
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Yeah, compare the American Revolution to an insurrection. Brilliant.
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Huge difference there...wait, what?
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Really? You can’t grasp what was happening that day in the Capitol building?
The insurrectionists can thank the Capitol police and Secret Service for their restraint that no others were shot and killed on that day.
Fuck, Babbitt and here pals. They are not patriots or even patriotic.
Doesn’t matter. The goal is to prevent a mob from rushing through that door at the lawmakers.
Why those “unarmed” rioters at the entrance to the HOR chamber were told they would be shot if they breached those doors.
You think if those “unarmed” antifa rioters had breached the WH in the summer they wouldn’t have been shot?
Former Capitol copper Fanone to be a contributor to CNN
Interesting move.
Link: Cop with a neck tattoo?
How so? Would be nice if we had more cops on these networks to explain the job and what they face.
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They will be available, as yr crew is all into
defunding the po po's
Just thought it was interesting. Perhaps not. Certainly safer line of work.
Not that that is always a motivation for some.
I'm sure he would have preferred to continue his former job, but for the heart attack he suffered on
Jan. 6th at the hands of mis-led rioters...I wish him well in his new venture.
Maybe. No idea really.
Do you have a quote attributed to him to that end?
Do you really need to be spoon-fed?...it's my opinion that his heart attack impeded his
ability to do the job of a Capitol Police Officer...and he was very moved by the whole experience...wants to do what he can to make sure this never happens again...conducted himself very well in the interviews he gave after recovering...CNN made him an offer...he took it...best wishes to him.
Hope that fills in all the gaps you couldn't figure out for yourself...but then, that's just my opinion...again, best of luck to Officer Fanone...thanks for your service to this country.
Well you spoke so definitively and I know you're fond of links.
Lot of places are serving brewed decaf Ty. Might be an option for you there big guy!
Nevertheless you are entitled to your opinion. Wish you'd afford others the same courtesy.
C'mon, Stark...you started this thread segment...don't quit so easily...I may not have sugar-coated
my response enough for you, but I told you what I thought of Officer Fanone's decision to take that CNN job...the ball is in your court...there is no way I could - or would - stop you from saying what's on your mind...stand up for yourself...speak up!...sheesh.