Hear me roar!!!
Replies to: Hear me roar!!!
Isn't it ironic?
Given who Jamal's uncle was, isn't it ironic that the mastermind of his murder will never be held accountable by the US because it might jeopardize an arms deal?
Ironic? Indeed.
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Link: https://spectator.us/trump-right-saudi-arabia/
Don't you think?
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And we all knew a month ago that this would be the result.
Waiting for hell-to-pay Lindsay Graham to cime in.
What if Obama were still President?
I suppose we could have cancelled all the arms sales to Saudi Arabia and broken off commercial relations... and would feel holier than thou. No?
Such a fallacious argument. No one is talking about cutting off ALL arms sales and/or commercial
relations. What is being discussed is commensurate sanctions that will send the message and punish the offense.
Right now Orange is saying you can murder refugee American reporters on foreign soil if they are of Saudi descent.
Ok... what would be "commensurate" and how would the Saudis react?
Oh! And what exactly would Obama likely do? I mean, he had no problem filling the Mullah's coffers with $... and they are even more brutal than the Saudis.
Holy crap. How about for starters you separate "Saudis" from "MBS" when talking punishment?
I don't understand why this is so hard for people. A reasonable President can figure out pretty quickly how you punish MBS for the murder and not all "Saudis". My guess is that a lot of "Saudis" would be happy to see MBS held accountable for the murder.
Course, Trumpy Trump won't punish MBS. Ever wonder why?
How did your starter Trudeau separate them? LOL. At the end he beg UK, UAE and US for help.
They all said no to him: Sorry, pretty boy, it's non our business.
It's easy for liberals to shout rhetoric, but you have no clue about reality.
Sorry I don't speak gobbledygook.
Just admit it. You have a big jumble cup of words and you just toss them out with no regard to coherence, relevance or logic.
Fine. You don't need to listen to me. Others may help you get what I said.
Cancel current aid in Yemen. Slow down spare part sales. Personal sanctions against CP.
Let arms sale go through if necessary.
I would hope they howl loudly in public. In private, would tell them it could have been a lot worse, they need to get their shit together and if they don’t will be worse next time. You really think they will switch sides and support Iran over that?
We need a poll. Is your tireless posting on Khashoggi case obsessive or compulsive?
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Is your tireless defense of Little Hands obsessive or compulsive?
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He apparently just found out that journalists are killed in other countries, but not the US.
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Ned and Trump, standing tall for Saudi Arabia’s values!
I have consistently condemned Saudi Arabia's behavior. You inconsistently do so.
I am consistently condemnatory, in a low key, non-obsessive way.
You support them if Trump tries to stop them from immigrating, and you condemn them obsessively if Trump fails to condemn them. You are incensed about journalists being killed only if it gains domestic political points...if it doesn't, then you are not obsessively condemnatory. And, then, you have the audacity to accuse me of supporting them, which is a total lie. I'm only calling you out on your domestic political motivations.
You had no problem trivializing a journalist’s execution. Your walk back is denied.
Don’t pretend that you care.
Saudi Arabia targeted a fierce journalist, a resident of the United States, and an employee of one of our most respected newspapers.
They knew Trump would give them a pass. We knew a month ago Trump would give them a pass.
Freedom of the press is a fundamental principle of our democracy.
Show some integrity and condemn the guy you voted for.
I put it on the same level on which you put all the other executions by the Saudis.
The only reason you treat this one differently is that for some bizarre reason, you think you can use his death as a domestic political tool against Trump.
So if they did the same thing to a US soldier, roll over and play dead?
Parents do not like playground bullies, but when such a bully presents at our kids’ school, do we not take action?
People do not like illegal dumping of toxic waste, but when it happens in the river that runs through our town, do we not take a stronger stand?
You keep missing the point that the world is watching. Dictators are watching. Lesson learned: Trump will let dictators do as they please.
What other executions do you compare to the asassination of an American resident employee of a
national newspaper on foriegn grounds? Name those that are comparable.
Please name the victims of all other Saudi executions that you post obsessively about on this board.
If Kashoggi didn't have importance to you as a domestic political lever against Trump, I certainly wouldn't be able to name him. He would be a nameless victim of an evil society. But, his death has value to you as a domestic political lever...his death has value to you...so we all get to hear his name a lot now.
Exactly the point. None are comparable to this assasination. Know any other US resident reporters
who are refugees that they have killed on foriegn soil because the couldn’t lure them back to SA?
Again not a judicially sanctioned execution. Rather an assasination.
How is this different than the US assassinating a US citizen on foreign soil by drone?
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Dissident reporter versus murdering terrorist. Yeah.....they are the same.
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Who gets to be the judge of that?
One country's terrorist is another's freedom fighter and such.
But essentially, you don't really have a problem with a country assassinating one of their own citizens on foreign soil. I do, I think that the US doing it set a bad precedent. It's difficult as a country who has done it themselves to criticize others, thanks Obama.
If they have declared war on us like the Jihadis have
and are a continuing threat to innocent people, I don’t as a last resort.
Comparing that the the assasination of a dissident journalist is a ridiculous comparison.
Then again I was never big on blaming America first.
Again, who is the judge of which people to put into which of your boxes?
On a number of levels, you're creating your own justifications to get to what you want to be the result. Try to think outside of your boxes.
For example, an American citizen deserves due process anywhere in the world. The idea that a government can just wait until they're on foreign soil to assassinate them is so counter to our principles.
You can make that argument although I don't agree with it. The comparison though is still
ridiculous. A dissident journalist is nothing like a confirmed murdering terrorist still engaging in that activity.
I don't know what/who to believe, there aren't many trusted sources which is why I bring this up.
And why I think that due process is so important.
I honestly don’t think Bush, Barry Obama or Orangetan targeted
US citizens abroad for drone strikes without solid evidence that they were terrorists who were a continuing danger to the public, and couldn’t be brought in safely.
You can argue whether the fact of US citizenship changes the DP requirements. I don’t agree, but I get the argument.
I don’t see it though as in any way comparable to the murder of Kashoghi.
My point isn't about Kashogi(sp?), I think we agree on that.
Some measured action should be taken towards the Saudis.
Again, I get the abstract DP argument. I also agree with the statement that the Constitution isn’t a
suicide pact. It should only be used a last resort, but in some cases I’m okay with it. I also trust our leaders even the current one to be judicious in using the option.
Are you okay with drone killing non citizen terrorists?
Yep, in your usual apologetic way. I really don’t like them....but we need to appease them in our
interests.
What we need to do is give them a kick in the ass and remind them who is boss. If they don’t like it they soon will be driving taxis in LA.
Right...and you believe FDR should have sanctioned Stalin instead of allying with him.
We could have invaded Saudi Arabia after 9/11 instead of Iraq, but then there is that whole Mecca thing......which is kind of a complicated problem, I think you would agree. And, since they serve as a foil to Iran, it is an even more complicated problem.
They are a conundrum as far as US policy is concerned. They are an evil society...the radical Wahabian faith led to 9/11, and yet you want more Wahabians in the United States, while at the same time you want to punish the regime which regulates those Wahabians and cooperates with the US.
Uhm yeah when the enemy was Hitler and he declared war on both nations.
Kinda hard to say that was a voluntary alliance.
Proof being as soon as Hitler defeated, alliance over.
Nothing remotely similar here.
Your comparisons get more pathetic by the day.
American. Something you wouldn’t understand, Stalin.
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Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you no sense of decency?
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Decency sir, from the biggest Orange apologist on the board? That’s rich.
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You are the one channeling McCarthy, not me.
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nah you are just apologizing as usual for despots. Mr. Decency himself.
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Well said, Frank McCarthy.
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Very clever Ned. You must have been the shit in 3rd grade.
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Hell yeah, I was!
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American interventionist. Go to read UN chapter. Stay away from other countries' internal affairs.
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Go read the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
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Holy Crap. Saudi didn't sign it, China (PRC) didn't sign it...many countries didn't sign it. You
use this document as the reason for your interventionism? You're the most stupid neocon I ever saw.
You’d be the first to call me a neocon. Congrats.
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Stupid neocon. 'cause you picke up neocon interventionism garabage for your anti-Trump purpose. When
you dress weird, I see how silly you're looked.
Sure Josef. Go kill some kulaks or dissidents.
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Patriotic.
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LOL. Are you a Saudi citizen? This is Saudi internal affair.
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Of an American resident, in Turkey. Internal alright.
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80% of top Chinese officials' family members have U.S. green cards. Please be "patriotic" to them
when they become the loser of their internal power struggle.
63% of Russian elites are US citizens
See? I can make shit up too.
87% of Putin’s farts smell like lilacs to Eli.
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WTF? If the Red menace sent hit squads to kill PR Chinese refugees, you think we would let them
do that here?
You are a fucked up authoritarian person.
Uhm, no the murder victim was a US permanent resident working for a leading American newspaper.
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PR is not citizen. His loyalty oath/responsibility is on Saudi, not U.S. Please don't argue with me
on this. As an immigrant I know it much better than you do. I don't want to exploit your ignorance on this. It's a unfair fight.
Right, bohunk you’re in the know on all things immigrant.
I really didn’t see that post on the horizon. Even from you. You get the WOW post of the day.
PR because he was a refugee from the repression of his govt. If Soviet had tried to kill refugees
in US because still citizens of Soviet, that would be okay if they were only US permanent residents?
Great reasoning Stalin.
"Please don't argue with me on this." How amusing.
At what point do you surrender your right to be killed by the leaders of the country you left? When you become a citizen?
If only I were an immigrant, I'd understand who is and who isn't eligible for murder and dismemberment.
The Saudis clearly took the right measure of the man before committing political murder.
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I think this is right.
No complaints when he kidnapped the Lebanese PM; no complaints when he locked political rivals in a hotel; no complaints when he blockaded Qatar for some reason; and no complaints as he starves Yemen. Why would MBS think a little murder of an Enemy of the People would be a problem?
Redline Obama would have done same.
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It wouldn’t have happened if Obama was in office.
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Yeah.Obama is awesome. All dictators fear him, bow down to him. No human right violation in his time
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Ha! That is pretty funny.
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Funny, in that it didn’t happen until Orange blew into town?
They own Kushner and him.
Plus Orange loves other dictators.
Laughable. How can you type that, and not know you are losing all credibility?
Do you really think that foreign countries are more fearful of strategically patient, false-red-line Obama than they are of unpredictable, send-in-the-troops, don't-fuck-with-America Trump?
Do you really think that the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia was waiting until Obama was out of office so that he could kill a Saudi journalist?
Do you really think that Trump would bow lower to the Saudi king than Obama did?
Low credibility is your currency in trade.
They own him and sonny in law.
All of this guy’s bullshit started post Orange.
They know him like a book and that he will give them whatever leeway they want.
What a craven, bowing and scraping statement that idjit gave them, a pass to get away with murder.
How do they own him? This is your chance to shine.
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They own Kushner and him through channeling money and financing to both over the years.
Orange was actually boasting at rallies in 2015 that he has sold 40 to 50 million bucks in apartments to them. They also patronize and keep his hotels profitable.
They have helped bail out Kushner’s real estate deals including one on fifth ave.
Google is your friend if you need the details.
Wow.
Let's assume everything you say is true, and Trump will do whatever the Saudi's say because of a few million in profit. That is a terrible business model for Trump...trying to get a few million in profit off of a few tens of millions in revenue. He should just set up a foundation, and have the Saudis donate the money directly to the foundation. His gross margins will be much higher if he did that...maybe 90% instead of 10%. Maybe Trump isn't so smart.
40 to 50 million is not a few million. The CP has also bragged that he owns Kushner.
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Revenue is not the same as profit. If Trump got to keep all the money, he's an amazing businessman.
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Yeah, their crackdown, arresting 11 Princes & billionaire Alwaleed is also because of Trump.
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Having the US president in your pocket emboldens dictators like the CP.
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Having the US president bend at the waist in your presence can also embolden a dictator.
That, or you are once again searching for things to criticize Trump about, when there are plenty of much more legitimate things to criticize him about.
Except though it didn’t, did it Ned. All of their boldness has come post Trump. Just coincidental,
huh?
That was kind of my point: Obama showed far more deference, and yet you blame Trump b/c of TDS.
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Your point is redunkulous as usual. The evidence is obvious as to who has emboldened them.
They were in their cage under Barry. They largely behaved themselves and followed our lead.
They have been acting off the chain since they knew they had Orange in their pocket. All of their “ bold” actions have been since his tenure.
Simple facts Neddy lad.
Right, because Trump is known for drawing red lines and then not punishing opponents who cross them.
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Because Trump is known to give those who have helped him what they want. Fact.
Proof: how they have behaved since he came in.
Wow. Trump is a bad guy then.
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So judgmental. Of course he’s a bad guy. Been that way for years. Ask any of the small bidness
owners he screwed.
Personally, I think most successful politicians are not nice people...
...no matter what outer image they project.
Not nice and bad people are different things. Orange is a bad person with the morals of an alley cat
Should be nowhere near the Oval.
Personally, I think most successful politicians are bad people.
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No, he wouldn’t have.
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“I think there is blame on both sides”
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