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Ridiculous how our so-called "leaders" (both health and political) can't use rational thought and logic when it comes to this.
very often are young, to those who are older and more vulnerable and could come down with severe symptoms, or even die (see attached link). Military units have a lot of teenagers and those in their 20s...but they also have senior Non-Comms and Officers who are in their 40s and 50s...they are typically vital and essential to the effectiveness of that fighting force, so having a pandemic overwhelm such forces is a threat, not only to them, but to the people they are trying to protect if they are incapacitated.
Hopefully, this expands your perspective as to why it is important for our military to be vaccinated...the only reason these shots aren't mandatory yet is because they are officially released under "Emergency Authorization"...otherwise it would be just "another vaccine shot" among many they already are required to accept.
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_on_USS_Theodore_Roosevelt
responsible for themselves and those of us who have been vaccinated can get on with normal life?
country and volunteer to get vaccinated...before they eventually lose that "choice" and 'fall in' for their shots.
As for the rest of us, I've attached the CDC guidelines for 'Fully Vaccinated' individuals...but to hopefully get closer to your question, I've posted recently the gist of a conversation I had with our family ID specialist...essentially, once every effort has been made to make the vaccine(s) available to all citizens, a decision will need to be made that the medical and political communities have done all they could and we'll then deal with "the numbers"...which means...
>If cases/hospitalizations/deaths are way down and trending down, we'll be pretty much in the familiar "seasonal flu" mode of operation...essentially wide open, with not a few folks still masking up.
>If cases, etc. are not coming anywhere near the desired levels, there won't be mandatory vaccinations, as in the military, but we'll likely find it difficult to travel outside the U.S. without proof of vaccination...also, there will likely be many businesses that choose to serve only those with proof of vaccination (i.e. "Vaccine Passports"), or employ only those with such proof (e.g. it is commonplace today to require certain vaccinations for employment in the health care field).
I would expect gradual acceptance of the need for vaccination...as evidenced in a TV report recently on previous resistance to Measles vaccinations that subsided when desired access was contingent upon proof that the shots had been taken...so my fingers are crossed that we'll reach 'herd immunity' and enjoy 'normal' life again...while hopefully learning a lesson on how to respond to the next potential pandemic (spoiler alert: it's going to happen, and based on SARS, MERS and COVID-19...not that long a wait)...it gives me absolutely no pleasure to type that.
Link: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html
The first people to get vaccinated will probably be due again. Is it 3 months? 6? 9? No one knows.
Everyone seems to be thinking, erroneously, that this is a one time deal.
And of course, this virus will continue to mutate.
getting everyone to see the light and do the right thing (get vaccinated), other highly populated sections of our planet haven't been able to even sniff a vaccine...meanwhile, COVID-19 keeps on doing its thing...ribosomes keep pumping out imperfect copies of the virus (i.e. mutations) and the medical ID community continues to lose sleep over it. Once we've done all we can to serve our own citizens, we then need to address the global needs for vaccines.
it’s lasting effectiveness or long term issues. But because the Government says so, you jump in line and like a few others, want to force everyone else along with you. In my eyes, the right thing is to let people have the choice on what they want to do and not be berated because my choice is different. But that doesn’t happen, especially on here.
community around you, so you have a responsibility to behave responsibly. A very apt analogy is highway driving...you can't just step on the gas and go 120mph any time you want to...that decision could have negative consequences for others in the community...viewed differently, you would certainly be outraged if someone else made a choice to barrel down the highway, run a red light and T-bone your daughter on her way to a softball game.
Because it would save lives.
Analogies based on extremes aren't usually helpful.
limits choices...btw, you can get arrested for going 25mph on a freeway in normal traffic, even if it doesn't 'peg' the radar gun ;-).
Pretty sure there are many who wouldn't agree that's an apt comparison.
has to do with being a responsible member of a community...COVID-19 is a communicable disease that depends on close contacts among the human population in order to replicate and spread...meanwhile killing a significant number (561,000+) of those hosts...therefore, it is incumbent upon ALL community members to take proven steps to eliminate this threat to the general welfare. The best and most effective step in this case is to get vaccinated with one of the most effective drugs yet produced as soon as it becomes available.
To understand this situation and not take the vaccine when presented indicates one of two characteristics...a) a genuine fear (not unreasonable) of a new drug and what it might do to one's health, which is understandable and a key reason why it is not mandatory...or b) a willful disregard for the welfare of others...for whatever reason they may have...which undeniably works against the best interest of the community.
Hopefully that helps you understand...if not, there are more megabytes still available.
And most of them have been in masks while telling me that.
Since the long term effects of the vacc are unknown, it's definitely not a reckless position. And for those who aren't in a risk group it may not be an unreasonable position.
COVID-19...can be transmitted by asymptomatic infected persons to those who are still vulnerable...it is a community responsibility for even those who are in low risk groups to get vaccinated. Recent studies of health care workers (including our ICU Doc) who are fully vaccinated show that they are not carriers of the virus, therefore getting ALL citizens - even low riskers - to be fully vaccinated hastens the advent of a truly open country...
Under the heading of "Enlightened Self-Interest"...get vaccinated...and (strongly) urge all your friends and family to do the same.
If we don't reach 'herd immunity', now that we have effective vaccines, the protracted malaise, both health and economy-wise, is on those who choose not to join in.
As is, people, including the military, have a choice. People who are afraid of the virus have a choice too, stay home.
Businesses, including airlines, can choose to require vacc if they want. Choices, choices, choices.
We are not going to be able to close this out through herd immunity this year.
So there will be variants and boosters will be needed in the future. Sad, but entirely predictable given the general dumbfuckery that pervades our national thinking.
All we can do is keep these folks as far away as possible.
Term effects of this vaccine? How long is it effective against the virus? Both questions you cannot answer because there is no data.
The analogy is bullshit and using my daughter to drive home your fear driven point is even worse.
...over 560,000 deaths...your choice. With those odds, I'll take my chances with the vaccine..
If you'd like to follow the vaccination program's progress you can bookmark the attached link.
Link: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state
And no one knows the long terms effects. Will I take it in time, that is yet to be determined. But the more you people try you shove it down my throat or shame me for that choice, the more I will continue to give you the finger on it.
I respect your choice and no seems to respect the people who choose not to take it. We are guilted that we are “killing people” Which is complete bullshit but it’s been said here multiple times. The drama queens love the doom and gloom of this over politicized virus.
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Never knew that HIV was a highly contagious airborne disease.
I also missed the requirement that all comparisons of other communicable diseases to COVID must be airborne.
The dancing that you and him do on this is similarly transparent to 521 and his hand-wringing about riotous behavior. Shuffle, shuffle, shuffle...
And yes HIV is straw man because that is an intentional misrepresentation of what’s being argued, and an easier case for you to make. The airborne component is critical to its communicability. HIV bears no similarity and you know it but dishonestly raise it anyway.
Regardless, we have two communicable diseases spread through choices that people make. You've chosen to evade it by unilaterally declaring that analogies shall be ruled out if the other communicable diseases being compared are not airborne. You're shuffling like this to avoid addressing the analogy in question. I might add that in saner times, most would regard it silly to compare something as life-threatening as HIV (and widespread, too), to a virus with a 98+% survival rate.
Particularly in communities and locations where HIV is prominent, what choices are you comfortable with the state taking away from people? What about HIV Passports? Do you think similar measures might save a few lives in San Fran or Seattle, for example?
But if you insist on being silly, I take it you are for mandatory flu vaccinations, right?
There is no public health need to know if someone has HIV or not. It isn’t readily communicable. There is every public health need to know who has COVID and who is vaxxed because of its easy airborne transmissibility. Never, ever go full bore Shufflin Neddie.
It is "readily communicable" in certain communities. Within places with a high numbers of those particular populations, why on earth might you oppose making known who is positive, or, at least, who has tested negative, along with, perhaps, some further restrictions on those with HIV?
Also, do you or do you not support mandatory flu vaccinations. No dancing allowed.
Go back to Oz straw man. You are clearly attempting to introduce something not being argued and something not even close to being comparable.
Since you will continue to duck #1, how about #2? Do you or do you not support mandatory flu vaccinations? Your legs must be getting tired.
You have a right a right to yer dumbfuckery. I just don’t want the state mandating that I need to be near them if a private business doesn't want these idjits on its premises.
The question was not whether private businesses may require it, the question was whether the state should mandate flu vaccinations, along with COVID vaccinations? Do you have any legs left after all this dancing, Frank? You won't directly answer either the HIV question or the flu question, will you?
I have never said either vax should be mandatory.
You must have been the projectionist at the local theatre growing up.
thread.
used to oppose various requirements about disclosure and so forth. The point is made. You understand it and the the inevitable hypocrisy is clear. I'm not in the mood for dancing with you two tonight.
should sign up for the vaccines...if you've been following the thread, a lot of relevant points have been raised...are there some you disagree with and want to provide your own slant? Honestly, I am at a loss as to how HIV figures into this at all...Since you took the time to post, please take a bit more time to shine a light on the connection.
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I really don't think we'll defeat it with vacc, lockdowns and mask wearing. Hope I'm wrong, of course...
keep telling us so even though they have no clue about it. I, like you, think this will turn into a yearly shot because no one knows shit. The experts have been wrong from day 1 and yet, they keep talking about people keep on believing them.
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You're willful ignorance and abject stupidity is once again showing itself.
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He has turned into a celebrity and shouldn’t be. If I was as wrong as he has been in my job, I would have been fired a long time ago. But the MSM keeps trotting him out like his word is gospel and people keep swallowing what he says. And I’m called “knucklehead” for not getting a rushed/unproven vaccine. Only in this day and age.
WHO, CDC, everyone has been wrong. In the case of the WHO, likely corruption was involved.
Fauci's predictions were based on models, models are based on data, data is based on testing which was also flawed.
It was politics that made Fauci, Cuomo and others into heroes. I don't fault Trump or any of the governors on either side either. I think they all did what they thought was right in the context of "two invisible threats" and there are no easy decisions in the midst of a pandemic especially without good data.
What's most important is that we learn what is the best strategy for dealing with future viruses. Correct the failures of data collection and modeling. Determine best policies on travel restrictions, lockdowns, etc. And this needs to take all factors into consideration including economic.
opportunity to get vaxxed. On the other side of the street, no private person or business should be forced to deal with or provide services to the unvaccinated. It’s sad that we have such a high % of knuckleheads in our nation that we can’t get to herd immunity, but that’s the unfortunate reality. I’m sick of the normal having to tell the nutties to follow common sense public health measures. I’m done with it. Just stay the fuck away from me and mine.
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getting vaccinated? I'm guessing there are senior Non-Comms and Officers who are in their 40s and 50s who share the attitudes of some we hear from on this board (i.e. non-vaxers), so until it's mandatory, such behavior should be offset by encouraging everyone in the military to be rational and get vaccinated for the proper defense of this country...agree?
But here's the thing: One would think that if the older people were worried about getting covid, they would have gotten the vaccine when it became available first. If they aren't worried enough about it to act, then why should others worry about them?
The military is a special case.
Suppose a reservist, in a non-deploying unit, will be out of the military in 3 months, and they don't want the virus...should they be ordered to take it (matter than encouraged)?
fit and ready at all times...that's what we pay - and honor - them for. Since all legal hurdles haven't been taken down yet, thus making it allowable to mandate the vaccination of troops, the best we can do is "encourage" them to honor their oath to defend this country and get their shots. Seems straight forward enough to me. BTW, I once was part of a crew that was offered an opportunity to help out the Canadian Red Cross by our Navy prior to a shore leave...when few of us were altruistic enough to accept that offer, the Navy clarified the "request" and 'marched' us down to the blood donation site...indeed, the military is a special case.
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Own your vote.
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as well as many on this board along with a large % of this country. It’s what their imaginations whip up therefore they’re right.
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I think you're onto something...
Why is it even a choice?
You will get a jab ... and a paycheck too.
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“The Marine Corps did not ask for your opinion, Lance Corporal Tampa, about whether you believe it prudent to get vaccinated. Nor will the Marine Corps ask when you wish to eat, or sleep, or shit. You are part of the greatest fighting force in history. We are not your mommy asking whether you have a rubber before your date with Suzie Rottencrotch. ...
... You will get vaccinated and there will be no reach around. The vaccination is meant to protect your infectious disease ridden body from your miserable self. It is meant to protect your fellow Marines. It is meant to keep you fully fit so that you are at your vest best to accomplish the mission .... and that mission is to kill Mohammed the Rocketman .... so get in line Marine and thank the Marine Corps for your free vaccination. ... and your paycheck.”
You know, on the vaccine you said was safe and the EU is now investigating?
I got the Moderna vaccine. But I did so voluntarily. All Americans should have the same right without coercion from you, and without having to acquire a vaccine passport that you have espoused.
The main group who don’t trust getting the vaccine are African American Dem voters. Will you be forcing that shot based on your ingrained racism?
Link: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/547463-eu-reviewing-johnson-johnson-vaccine-after-reports-of-rare-blood-clots
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was my experience in the military... actually makes me laugh out loud.
I also remember "freedom is for when you become a civilian, today it is about obedience."
I am sure we can all see the nuance to the decisions of the individual and the desire for safety.
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“Officials say most of the vaccine hesitancy stems from concerns about the speed at which the vaccines were developed and fears over long-term effects.” These are extremely valid concerns. Glad they have been given the choice. It’s almost like we still live in America.