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We all better pray we get a vaccine first. To reach herd immunity through infection alone means we are likely talking over a million US deaths.

You also realize you can get to herd immunity if enough people are vaccinated, right?

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Is it still an existential threat to Western democracy?

Personally, I'm more concerned about the pandemic that's killing over a thousand people per day.

the science."

This is what is on WHO's website currently: "If there is widespread community transmission, and especially in settings where physical distancing cannot be maintained, governments should encourage the general public to wear a fabric mask."

Link: Q&A: Masks and COVID-19

and WHO.

They are now clearly recommending masks in indoor settings where social distancing is not possible.

It happens so often. It’s remarkable that people don’t get angry.

“Of course they lied, there was a mask shortage”

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...and at the beginning the gov't agencies (like everybody else) didn't know shit and was making judgement calls based on the best info available.

We now have more info available and the recommendations have changed. It's pretty simple for people that actually work in a science field. For example, I work in the field of stream and wetland restoration. The things we do now (based on recommendations from gov't agencies) are totally different than what we did 20 years ago when I first started this type of work.

The general public obviously is confused by the inconsistent messaging, which sucks.

Anyone with half a brain understood that they were trying to keep people from hoarding masks in the early days. I understand the motivation. But the execution was total bullshit, imo. To have the bureaucracy directly lie to people to accomplish their aims is troubling to me.

I’m not talking about politicians. We expect them to lie... Read my lips, no new taxes ... I did not have sexual relations with that woman ... wmd ...if you like your healthplan, you can keep your healthplan .... basically everything Trump says.

Perfectly acceptable right now.

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No need when walking down a trail or most other outside activities. That's my opinion.

I wouldn't mock teachers for wearing a face shield. At least that would imply they were doing their job.

Masks protect others. Goggles only protect you. Do what you want with the goggles, but everyone in an indoor public space should wear a mask.

You've said this several times.

Think about what you are saying. If you were really about others, you'd wear rubber gloves. You'd wear a REAL medical mask that you spent a small amount more for, and you'd wear a face shield despite your fear of being ridiculed in public.

THAT is what you would do if you were genuinely caring about others, and you thought you could do anything more than flatten the curve. You'd also condemn the protests as much as you condemn R's for their gatherings.

Your homemade mask is about as helpful to yourself as it is to others (which it isn't really - esp since you touch it all of the time).

Quit being such a smug liberal smelling your own farts like it's fine wine. How noble you are.

Here's your Dem dr Fauci just before the mask issue became political at the beginning of April 2020:


Link: Dr Fauci on masks

Also, so glad that you know what mask I'm wearing.

I actually wear a medical grade mask (not a homemade one) when in higher risk locations like the grocery store. I would gladly wear a face shield in those scenarios if I had one. I wouldn't worry about being mocked in the slightest.

1) Nothing has changed since April in our extensive knowledge of masks. Do you actually think that the director of the CDC didn’t know about masks in April 2020?!

2) Before you sit here and brag about how good you are, go out and buy the face shield and gloves that you admit to not using. Also buy a box of N95 masks, and throw them out after every use and get a new one. Also throw out the face shields and gloves after each use. If your going to do this, do it right an stop acting like the last place intern.

3). Stop going out beyond What is the absolutely necessary anymore. Absolutely necessary.

At that point, you’ll be a better position to brag about how good you are. It will also mean that your life will suck. Thus, you won’t stick with it because,as a liberal, you feel that these kind of restrictions should only apply to other less enlightened troglodytes.

Me....my understanding of the mask situation is the same as Fauci’s was in April BEFORE this became a political football.

I have several medical grade masks that I discard after each high risk activity. I don't wear more than one at at time.

BVZ, why do you think America is so much worse at covid than every other country in the developed world?

incentivization, but in opposite directions.

No knowledgeable person would argue that China and Russia are not accurately reporting their numbers. They are incentivized to do so in order to not be hurt in both reputation and trade. This is true for other countries also.

The US on the other hand has a medical system that gets paid 20% more for any diagnosis tied to corona virus. It has a nonspecific billing code giving the corona virus diagnosis without having to prove with a + test and a billing site done offsite by biller/coders reading EMR’s who are taught to look to maximize their “billing opportunities” in order to keep their jobs.
The US also has a large contingent of radical left wing RESIST’ers who falsify data (take the clinics in Florida that we’re reporting 100% + case results). Just a few of those instances really skews the numbers, and there are more than a few.

We also have been one of the targets of China for this.

You seriously have to stop being so dense as to think that the virus is doing something different here in the US than it is elsewhere. Your delusion is encouraged by the tempting possibility of blaming Trump’s leadership for the problem as well as your natural loathing of the US itself that most liberals possess.

Trumps shut down of travel from China against the Dems and Biden’s objections in the early weeks of this event was THE single biggest move to help our country that has been accomplished to date. His roll out of vents now populate not just our hospitals, but the entire world. His elimination of unnecessary regulations allowed remsdesivir to market months ago, and multiple promising vaccines are moving through development and study at never before seen speed.

You really are a partisan covering himself in the shroud of smugness. Your knowledge comes from what the msm feeds you, Nothing more.

If anything, our deaths are also under reported.

You are correct they get 20% more to deal with covid cases (and that is whether they live or die...so I don't see the incentive for them to report them as dead).


Link: Fact-check: Hospitals and COVID-19 payments

and our knowledge of them was learned in their presence. The Family characteristics of this virus and others as it pertains to masks has been known for long before the Fauci interview.

You have no legitimate answer to this film clip nor does he.

We wouldn’t be having this discussion in a non election year.

The CDC reversed course on April 3, citing new studies showing that asymptomatic people can transmit the virus to others without showing symptoms.

“In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission,” the agency said.

It's the fact asymptomatic people can spread it (which wasn't previously known regarding this specific virus) that was the reason the recommendations changed.


Link: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fprevent-getting-sick%2Fcloth-face-cover.html

It’s not to me which along with the huge difference in knowledge level on the topic obtained before it became a political issue is what separates us.

Guess I was wrong. Every expert and gov't agency tasked to deal with this is wrong and you are right.

takeover. It is now a political tool. We have seen multiple medical teachings change to fit the political times.

Look at how Fauci won't come out and admit in hearing that protestors spread the virus also. or do you really believe the bogus reporting from the MSM that it doesn't?

You think (and want and need) yourself more knowledgable and sensible on this topic, but I promise you that it is quite the opposite.

Your use of a left wing fact check site says it all.

If you require more sources, I have them.

Link: Fact check: Is US coronavirus death toll inflated? Experts agree it's likely the opposite

Yes, there are multiple liberal biased “Fact Checkers”. There function was to provide skewed and false information (propaganda) and responses to their followers to uncomfortable facts. They are in general un.trustworthy

Your article chooses its “experts”, and even so they hedge their claim with the word “likely”

I cited specific irrefutable facts about billing and thus counting of cases (they farm their data from this source for their lazy studies - I will no longer assume that you made the connection to this fact by deduction). These practices MUST lead to overcounting.

If I cite a Brietbart Fact Check article, you will scoff, because as a liberal, you think that your sources are good and others are bad.

And deaths with covid are not included in the number of deaths from covid. Hospitals have no incentive to lie on the number of deaths from covid.

If anything, from a purely financial standpoint, they probably have incentive to say their deaths are not from covid as that will make their survival rates look better and attract more business.

the infection when they die, whether or not it was actually the cause of death. The hospitals mention the comorbidity as they always do to maximize reinbursement, and then the data miners with an agenda go to town with the death numbers. Absolutely true.

People dying of other things are thus counted as COVID deaths simply because they had the disease. In fact, with the nonspecific coronavirus diagnosis, they can be counted as a COVID death even without a + test result - just a respiratory infection and a suspicion alone.

And this does not even take into account the lying done by TDS'ers working in the system to help the RESIST cause.

This is my last post on the topic. You should read this non-political article about how the cases are counted. You are letting conspiracy theories dictate your worldview.

Link: How COVID-19 Deaths Are Counted

Anyone not wearing goggles could have the virus, and we're not sure if the cloth mask will actually do anything at that point.

Don't be a savage.

By not wearing one. I guess in time I may need to find the ones they use that open while they eat so they have to take them off. If you’re going to look down your nose at everyone, do it looking like a complete jackass.