UHND.com - Notre Dame Football, Basketball, & Recruiting

Church and State and freedom of worship for all religions is maintained in our public schools…even though there are no Christian indoctrination programs going on anywhere…at any grade level…it would be purely inflammatory…right?

This bill is mean-spirited and serves no purpose other than partisan politics...absolutely shameful.

(no message)

could be viewed as "targeting" the LGBTQ+ community unnecessarily...at least from the perspective of those opposing this inflammatory law...(see link)

Link: https://www.morganlewis.com/pubs/2020/06/us-supreme-court-federal-law-prohibits-discrimination-against-gay-lesbian-and-transgender-employees

And certain posters.

LGBTQ+ issues...let's see how rampant this "problem" you assert, is...ball is in your court, Stark...get on it...start with Florida.

Appears Florida was getting ahead of this. Before perverts like yourself could infect the state.

Edit: Article is from 2019, so this likely has spread.


Link: Gay curriculum required....

given the acceptance of homosexuality even within the Catholic community, do you find anything wrong with the linked article?

Relevant to this discussion, do you see any value in never talking...at all... about such a real topic with students who observe it every day, often with their own peers?...should their teachers shut their mouths tight, even if asked about it by those students?...

When and how should young people get educated on this very pertinent issue?...only through their parents who may have never enlightened themselves on it?...while parents will hopefully take a role in this, our society needs to be sure that every student is properly informed...one can debate the content and methodology, but not the objective of educating and preparing them for the adult world they will be entering.


Link: https://welcomingschools.org/resources/stop-thats-so-gay-anti-lgbtq-comments

No of course I have no problem with this. Don't be silly.

As far as the overwhelming polling of Catholics. I don't particularly care. Firstly, I am not catholic. I married into a very strong catholic family, and I am quite certain they would belly laugh at your poll. Second, I am fairly confident, based on your other misleading stories, the poll you are offering is very likely skewed to produce an outcome you and you fellow parishioners at your particular sect want desperately to believe. Conclusion selective if you will. We've gone over the false teachings at your church. no need to revisit.

"Relevant to this discussion, do you see any value in never talking...at all... about such a real topic with students who observe it every day, often with their own peers?...should their teachers shut their mouths tight, even if asked about it by those students?..." Of course there is value. As noted above, all students should be respectful and treat their peers dignity. When the teachers are asked question, they should keep their opinions private. That is not their place. "Well Johnny, that's a very good question. And frankly an important one. And I do have an opinion on that. However I think that it's important you discuss these issues with your family first. If you still have questions, then we can take additional steps." At that point getting the parents involved is fully appropriate and expected.

"When and how should young people get educated on this very pertinent issue?...only through their parents who may have never enlightened themselves on it?...while parents will hopefully take a role in this, our society needs to be sure that every student is properly informed...one can debate the content and methodology, but not the objective of educating and preparing them for the adult world they will be entering." Certainly not in kindergarten through third grade. 5, 6, 7 is far more appropriate. And it would be sex education. Not LGBTHQ indoctrination education. Parents are notified ahead of time what the topics will be and people can opt out if they don't want their kid being blasted with your secular indoctrination. Or whatever you would have them being taught. Questions like that are most certainly better handled by the family. Then questions of why Timmy has 2 mommies or two daddies can be addressed. And that's why you're pissed. No more little foot soldiers in your army. You want the kids totally removed from their parents when it comes to social issues. I would like to think that on some level you realize how inherently evil this is, but then I am reminded where you are getting your teachings. I want my kids prepared for the world they are entering and the one that lays beyond this one.

And you're welcome for the link. Good job trying to change the subject. Gay curriculum is being taught in public schools.

As to your first paragraph...

>PEW Research is a 501.3.c organization that takes no policy position at all...it just collects facts and reports on them...it is very well respected, so your assumption is your own, unless you can come up with evidence to the contrary...btw, the Gallup Poll reports very similar results on this issue...in their 2020 report they found 69% of U.S. Catholics found same sex marriage to be valid. I mention Catholics because this site has the name of a Catholic university on it, and many alumni who are Catholic...not unreasonable for me to cite such a poll...nonetheless, even the majority of that faith are accepting of homosexuals...even to the point of same sex marriage...which puts folks like you in the 'minority'.

>As to my own parish, you actually know nothing about it...you only have MY posts which say nothing about any teachings there...not sure why you make up such an unsupported statement...any debate you want to have...you have it with me and my beliefs.

Your second paragraph...and, actually your third as well, since they blend together...

>You agree that "at some age", it is appropriate for teachers to broach the subject of homosexuality...in as "Objective" a manner as possible, is what I'm hearing from you...if so, I full agree with you. This is where parents and teachers need to get together...perhaps have a 'demo run' through a hypothetical class experience, before there is an agreement on the content and methodology proposed by the school board, thus ensuring there is no "Indoctrination" taking place. Each (and every) district can and should have this discussion, but at the end of the day, the topic needs to be addressed...for ALL grades in that district...there's probably no need for it at the "K" level, or even Grades 1 and 2...although a discussion on the matter should be held...for me, I leave it to the teachers and parents to work this out.

>You make another totally unsubstantiated statement that I "... want the kids totally removed from their parents when it comes to social issues. "...you are free to do a search that supports that accusation...but you won't be successful...please stop making stuff up...it certainly doesn't help your credibility.

Thus far I'm reading that you agree with school districts being able to allow teachers to educate students on homosexuality...and we both agree that parents are an essential part of that process...once agreement on content and methodology has been reached, it is in everyone's best interest to see that the issue is addressed in the school setting...agreed?

So, if this is what we've come to, then we should also agree that Florida's "Don't Say Gay" bill is contrary our views on how the topic should be handled, and should be rejected...correct?

Well again, not being Catholic. It doesn't mean a great deal to me. Likewise, my family. So, if that somehow validates your misguided belief that because a majority of others are also misguided and this is an ND board, I really cannot argue that. Have at it! Go Irish! Interesting that Baron (not to mention a host of others here!) is a very devout Catholic and he is not a huge fan of the LGBTQ agenda, or abortion, beliefs which are sacrosanct to you. So, someone is incorrect. Based on my understanding of Scripture, it's not them. You call it an ancient text. Not to be followed, right? Kind of pick and choose what you like and disregard what convicts your sinful nature. A cafeteria, something or other....You can figure out the rest from there. Regarding the poll, I would be curious about the who when and where's of it. For instance, was it a poll of people like you and Pelosi in SF or Joe in Delaware (who has Communion withheld I might add), or a poll of midwestern Catholics in Dubuque? I would wager the outcome would vary just a bit. As a side note, would be curious to see the polling on evangelicals regarding these issues. I would suspect it's significantly less than the 69% of lost souls you boast of. But history has shown us that these two groups have vastly different way of understanding and practicing a shared religion. As to your Parish, that is correct. I know nothing of it but what you have posted. Based on what you have posted I can conclude it is not a biblical sound church. But that is to be expected in a place bereft of spirituality such as the Bay Area.

I agree with you that at some point sexual education is required. Homosexual education is not. I do not agree with you on this. Parents, should they wish to abdicate their role and have their children raised by the state, I can do or say nothing about that. If parents require assistance in the discussion of such matters they should certainly seek out help. If that is the public school system, so be it. But I would strenuously recommend they do so in conjunction with a pastor, doctor, grandparent etc. My kids are in public schools. So as a good father and a steward of what God has blessed me with - my kids and my wife - I heavily scrutinize every piece of paper coming home. What is being taught and who it is being taught by. Not all parents have the foresight to defend their children. Which is why I suggest they do so in concert with someone who can assist (pastor, doctor, grandparent etc.) We have a number of teachers at my children's school you can imagine are only all too ready to foist their religion on them. That shall not pass, bub!

If you agree with me that parents should be a vital part of these discussions, then you agree that if a significant portion of those parents conclude that K-3 is too young for discussions of this behavior at that age, then it should be respected. Not dishonestly derided as a "don't say gay bill". That is hurtful to the wellbeing of these families. It divides. And you certainly don't want to be a divider do you Ty?

Your first paragraph...

>Your questions about how the polls were conducted are proper...everyone should consider such things...the two sources I mentioned (PEW Research, and Gallup) are well known...I actually anticipated your questions and did a bit of researching on PEW...they are a non-profit firm that everyone seems to agree does not take any policy position...ever...frankly, it would hurt their 501(c)(3) status...as for Gallup, they've been a known commodity for ages with no serious complaints against them...plus, these polls have been taken regularly for a decade or two...there is a consistency in the results...also, you can Google them yourself...it's all on line...that's how I found the data...and, they address all segments of society, Dem...Rep...age...religious affiliation...etc...when a majority consistently validates their acceptance of homosexuals, you know that's the norm...are there people who strenuously disagree?...of course...but that cohort is declining over time...seems like their message isn't resonating. tt

>As for scripture writings...there's obviously lots to talk about here, so I'll be brief...they are indeed ancient, and reflective of different times, circumstances and cultures...nonetheless they have wisdom in them..that needs 'translating' into modern 'vernacular' and living experiences. In that 'West Wing' episode I linked awhile back showed a couple of outrageous scripture guidelines that may have been relevant back in ancient times, but no way would they be taken seriously today...so it is with all readings...we need to discern the meaning(s) in light of all the knowledge - and wisdom - that we have gained in the interim...I don't reject them out of hand, I just try to understand them with a lot more input than just those words...that, I believe, is what many would view as "Bible Study"...otherwise, no one would need to come and talk about those readings.

>btw, the Bay Area has a diverse makeup of Liberals and Conservatives...with the "Libs" holding a majority. In our parish, my wife and I have been part of a group that's been getting together for nearly 50 years...there are conservatives and liberals in it and we work together on many projects, becoming GREAT FRIENDS along the way...without going too far afield here, I'd say the main reason for that is we share a common view of family values...and we believe in working together on many service projects inside and outside our parish...we all contribute "Sweat Equity" in those projects. The unfortunate thing about an on-line site like this is that there is no opportunity to work together and build understanding and trust in one another...over the years I've found that to be the #1 way of bringing people together...not in perfect alignment, but in a productive alignment....enough on that.

Your second paragraph...

>Let's be clear...any discussion of homosexuality is inherently a part of a broader context...i.e. Sex and Sexuality...it is not, nor have I ever heard it to be, a "sales tool" to gather more members...which some people seem to be deathly afraid of...I get that some folks feel that way, but such a scenario never even enters my mind...back to Sex & Sexuality...this is vital education, that frankly not a lot of adults/parents understand...I know this because my wife and I did a stint in our Diocese teaching "Marriage Preparation" for engaged couples...trust me...the majority had no idea what the term "Sexuality" meant, even after all the years of living with their parents...therefore, I am convinced that total reliance on parents exclusively in this area is a recipe for disaster...BUT, that doesn't mean the parents involvement should in any way be curtailed...just "Added to".

>I trust that you have read all the objectives and guidelines that Oregon has for sex education in public schools...I did a quick review and it is extensive...what are your experiences in dealing with the teachers there on this subject?...are you comfortable with what's going on there?...

Your third paragraph...

>I'm sure there are significant differences in content and volume of sex education within the school system depending on grade level...I'm also trusting that professionals, along with PTAs, have and are working on such issues, so I'm not going to offer an uninformed opinion on the matter of whether any grades should be totally unaddressed by the subject...it wouldn't surprise me if any mention of Sex Education in kindergarten or the first two grades was simply brief 'reactionary' counseling to relevant incidents that might arise...but that's just me.

In closing, i agree with you on the need to encourage parents to get active in this arena...but also I feel that they should embrace well-intentioned and well-constructed school Sex & Sexuality programs delivered by their teachers...and I must say that the Florida bill appears to try and hide any discussion of homosexuality...not good, or realistic.

(no message)

(no message)

Pups playing poolside....woof!

(no message)

And you as well I suppose, since you claimed this isn't in the curriculum. The point has been made. Feel free to try and change the topic.

As Ty might say, you need to educate yourself.

(no message)

I was actually referring to Ty's subscription to puppy fetishism. Of which he is a HUGE fan.

But I think we've beat this one to death. no?

Cheers Jim.

(no message)

And if genetic does this include all the myriad forms of human sexual perversion?

And if not… how do any of these develop?

Regardless, where do we draw the “orientation” vs “mental illness” line?

And ultimately, how can we teach something to children that we don’t understand ourselves?????

therefore, at the proper grade level it is important for all students to understand that this is wrong (see my posted link about the SCOTUS decision)...how this is accomplished should be debated, but the objective is the same...stop the discrimination...hiding this reality will not improve the society they will inherit.

Meanwhile, studies continue to help understand the root causes...with the desire to make life better for everyone.

It is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time.

So, why do they want to develop it? Politics. Using individuals to further group politics. The Left doesn't recognize the value of the individual, but they do value the group. They will sacrifice kindergartners because they don't value them. The do value queer groups, though. So, developing more queers is viewed as an admirable goal by the Left. No harm done in their eyes, since they don't see the individual. They only see a stronger voting group.

(no message)

It's not that you only got the bill and the walkout incorrect - it's that you made up what it's about.
There are no programs in those years which teach children about gender-queer.

Here's the reason for the walk out and here is in summary what the bill says.
----------------------
"The bill “Do not say gay” makes it illegal in practice for educators who teach kindergarten through 3rd grade to discuss queerness or queer people with their students at all, even if the concepts of sexual and gender identity are not actually taught at that level. Teachers would similarly be prevented from discussing the subjects with older students unless the subject is assessed as “age-appropriate” or “developmentally appropriate” in a manner not specified in the bill."

Sounds like a ridiculous statement, I know, but there is no other explanation for this.

(no message)

They won't care.

It's not like kids are thinking about the way they screw.

people's children who feel that it is immoral. This is all about the long term mainstreaming of LGBTQ.

(no message)

Side note: The more I think about it, promoting gay sex is just another way for the Left to deny science. There are two holes down there, one for sex, and one for shit. Personally, I don't really care if some people mistake one for the other. I'm sure they enjoy it. There are a lot of other ways to have fun as well. But, why must I be forced to pretend that I think that is normal? Why is my compliance in their act important? And, why must they try to talk about it with my kindergartners? That is the weird part, and I just don't get it. I'm not being anti-gay here. I oppose any law being passed to stop homosexual behavior. I just don't think we need to push it in the schools, and I reserve the right to vote against that.

Both the Old and New Testament are quite clear on this in multiple, specific locations. Keep your religion to yourself. Protect the 1rst amendment rights of parents.

Polls have been taken on this issue for years...and the trend of acceptance for gays is increasing even more...you need to evolve.

Link: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/02/how-catholics-around-the-world-see-same-sex-marriage-homosexuality/

Fuck you're are a weirdo.

let me try to get you back on track here...the link from PEW Research shows that the large majority of Catholics in the U.S. are accepting of homosexuals...Baron is not...therefore he is outside the "Norm" of U.S. Catholics on that issue...or, as 'Webster' says regarding the use of the word "Abnormal":..."deviating from the normal or average"...in truth, it's a 'play on words' by me...meant in a 'sarcastic' way.

Bottom line...Baron...and you, by association...are in the MINORITY on this issue...sorry about that, but them's the facts.

I mean c'mon. You a proud proponent of some freaky freaky shit. Who knows what you get up to in your spare time....

substantive discussion...find a way to control your thoughts and posts...it'll be in your own best interest.

Thank you for the lecture. I am quite confident in who I am and what I believe and my role as a father and husband. I scarcely need your approval or opinion on how I do anything.

(no message)

The topic is far too difficult for this age group to grasp. Absolutely no need for it to be taught.

Get fired up, Karen!

(no message)

(no message)

I’ve heard about me homeschooling my kid. He is following a similar path as his friends but under our eyes, not people like him. Things like this bother him because his Liberal agenda can’t be pushed on kids who are home.

Sure, you're fucking them over. But at least they won't get turned gay, amirite?!

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

away from Liberal dickheads (like you) "fucking him over"? The kid still sees his friends and hangs out with them. He just doesn't have to listen to the political agenda of a teacher. My kid is far from sheltered but me doing what I am doing really gets under your skin and it's great. That tells me it's the right decision. He gets to travel with me at times and see parts of the states he would never see. Gets to meet all kind of different people all the while not being in school and still doing his work. Now if only I can get him to like softball and go to his sisters games.

You probably won't answer this because you're a lot like Jim. Not a real big fan of direct questions.

(no message)

(no message)

maybe these lefty educators and administrators get off on this. How about sticking to the three Rs and leave this obsessive sex discussions to the parents.

Why do you oppose that?

(no message)

answer this fucking question and don't dodge it.

(no message)

(no message)

No wonder how or why a man like Trump could be elected with the brilliance you display.

If you can't state your views (as we've seen repeatedly here), you should probably change your views.

(no message)

Unfettered access to the kids without parent consent. Otherwise, their movement is kapoot.

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

(no message)

I posted the bill and the reason for the planned walk out.

I got the info correct. No rage.

It's odd you who think of yourself as clever, and smart can't get something so simple that.

There are no programs as far as I know (in Florida) that teach sex ed in K - 3. So what is your
issue? Sounds like you're making up another story to support Nigel's incorrect story.

(no message)

It's clear you've taken this topic of correcting Nigel's post and moved it around to some other rage you're on.

At this point, we are performing for an audience. Everyone reading this thread sees that you support public sector employees discussing sex with Kindergartners (and apparently Disney does as well), which is perverted and discussing. Please keep this issue in the public eye. It is a loser for your side.

Get over it.

As for me, I don't think public school teachers should be talking about sex of any kind, queer or otherwise, to kindergartners.

Very odd that you can't agree with me on this.

And now you've got a thread up you ass and can't see straight.

If you want my opinion of the bill, just ask for it - All this other needless nonsense is just that. You very much over think
others posts.

different state, have at it. Let them ask Disney for a transfer and maybe they can be happy in California. I don't have kids this young anymore but if I did, I would not have issues with this bill. I want teachers to teach, especially with kids this young. I want the days of reading, writing and arithmetic again, not the teachers personal agenda.

use any language while in class that represents the LGBTQ community - the bill is called "Don't say Gay".

There are not teachings or programs that discuss the LGBTQ language or gender queer information in the classroom.

This is another of those bills being passed in States that create a rage throughout that have no base in reality. There
is no rampant voter fraud - there are no CRT programs in our schools outside university level, there are no programs
in K - 3 that teach children about being gender queer. It's all made up for your rage.

schools? You seem to know what is really going on so you must know the inner working of the schools down here. My kids are past this age but we have plenty of friends who do not have the luxury of making the switch we did. They want to but need to figure out the logistics of making it work. I have not heard any complaints about this bill, oh wait, yes I have, from people like you outside of the state.

You should take that and have knowledge of what the walkout is about and what the bill is for. Full Stop!

state to live in. And of course, you never answer direct questions and continue to prove the point.

(no message)

shithole like NY or California.

(no message)

out of my red state and go to NY, OR or California. Have at it. There can get all the Liberal policies they want.

(no message)

Something you got wrong.

I didn't defend their stance - I corrected your incorrect post.

Do Better.

The usual suspects will defend this garbage. It’s pure politics.

Keep circling….

identity / sexual orientation to kids in grades K-3. I’M NOT MAKING THIS UP!!! Kids aged 4-7!!"

That is patently incorrect!

You've incited your rage machine buddies on here with false info.

I've not defended the walkout and I've not defended your incorrect posting.

DO BETTER

(no message)

For the good of his company, he should do one of two things:
1) If the issue is important enough, he should lead it. Keep the employees calm. Ensure them they are working the issue at the corporate level with government officials...whatever.
2) If the issue is not important enough, let everyone know they will be fired when they cause trouble.

this discussion with kids this young? Of course this is all about trying to make DeSantis look bad. They really don't care about the kids.

Apparently there are divided camps within Disney on this topic.