I feel like this is the general response to all school shootings: they arrive and beginning staging their response, while gunfire rings out and children die.
Is anyone aware of how police are trained to respond to mass shootings?
was pretty standard training. Apparently maybe not. First couple officers on the scene are supposed to enter immediately.I’ll have to read up on this more.
So far, we've heard the killer was a tranny on the run for murder, etc.
Now we are hearing the cops were eating donuts on the cafeteria for an hour.
Nobody yet knows all the details. Undoubtedly the truth will come out with time.
It may be different from one agency to another.
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Then again, I think it was in Dayton where the shooter was taken out in 30 seconds - but since he had an efficient weapon he was able to kill 9 people and wound 17.
It is very tough not to make emotional statements right now given the pictures of the kids,
I'm an old man but I would not have listened to the police.
I've had a long and beautiful life and it would crush me to see those kids deprived of such joy.
It still does today..
I can only think of my beautiful grandkids... who are all in this age bracket.
Why can't we both increase gun ownership restrictions and harden our soft targets?
I don't get it.
They are scared of all guns, and don't want any guards. I sat on a board; I was privy to the private debate on this. I was dumbfounded by how resistant they are to guards or trained armed teachers. They are more afraid of an every day guard than they are of a once in a million active shooter, so they are willing to roll the dice regarding their individual school. Instead, we bought tennis balls for the kids to throw at an active shooter -- I shit you not. (I said ball bearings might be better, but they thought that was weird.)
So, you have thousands of schools rolling the dice on this, counting on the likelihood that the next shooter will be at some other school, and not theirs. That way, they don't risk any liability for themselves. It is shameful, but it is really happening.
[Edit to add: I'm not even talking about whacko, child-grooming, raceism-training liberals. For every one of those, there are a dozen gun-fearing liberals who have never held a gun, and get nervous around them...they might just "go off" and hurt someone. The liberals on my board were great people who cared deeply for the children. They just couldn't face the issue directly when it came to actual life or death risk. Also, the local cop briefing the board was also a liberal, and only wanted guns in the hands of police, and smirked at the idea of guards, so he didn't help the discussion.]
Nor do I want to do any other dumbass thing that would distract from the real problem.
We all know what it is. But one side wants to talk about ANYTHING else.
I am willing to meet in the middle and say it’s partially a mental health issue and partially a proliferation of guns issue
Where are you?
I am willing to meet in the middle and say it’s partially a mental health issue and partially a proliferation of guns issue
Where are you?
The difference is that our screwballs have access to really efficient weaponry.
shooting across America -
"What we need to do is look into how we can stop those things," Walker said. "They talk about doing disinformation. What about getting a department that can look at young men that's looking at women that's looking at social media. What about doing things like that? We can stop it that way."
Walker continued: "They just want to continue talking about taking away your constitutional rights. This has been happening for years, and the way we stop it is by putting money into the mental health field." ... Herschel Walker.
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Republican acceptance in the spin of deflection - I wonder how long it took Walker to memorize this rhetoric.
This is the guy who just won a republican primary in Georgia for US Senate. He obviously speaks to guys like Woodstock, neddie, elp and tampa.
Out someone running in GA. You and the lead Liberal can now insert your Whatabout bullshit line but it’s true.
from the gun store to not enough attention is being paid to the mentally unstable or video games or social media.
Because it can't be that guns are an issue, it must be a social setting. Because ia, jarhead or billybob or some other gun lover hasn't
shot anyone in the US yet, it must be FB or libs or video games or something else. Guns are definitely not the common denominator.
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You question my knowledge in handling a gun,
as if that has any bearing on a gunman shooting and killing innocent and unawares school children in the middle of study. You also question my relevance in the discussion of a murdering gunman. You imply my association with guns is in fear.
(This may not be in this thread but you and all you other deflectors of this topic do the same all the time).
Then you imply free speech, rights to privacy, government invasion of dwellings are all up for grabs by those who would object to how a gunman can obtain weapons to be a gunman shooting to death shoppers, school children, worshippers, concert goers, in transit weekday workers en masse.
All this when the argument should be how can we stop the murder of our nation’s citizens at the hands of gunman who use guns to gun down their prey?
Attacking my credibility doesn’t boost your credibility or your multiple fallacy arguments one iota. All it does is support the murder and murdering of all past and future victims who are injured and die by the gun.
Let’s talk about how to restrict sales of guns, gun responsibility and gun regulations of assault weapons and not talk silly 2nd amendment fantasies.
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Mental health is not the same around the world in that different environments trigger different mental illness. And, we have been de-incentivizing the family unit for many decades now, which means more triggers and less treatment. Different societies have different levels of mentally ill at large in the general population. We need to start actually treating people rather than pretending they are not mentally ill.
Your data shows that Americans buy more than one gun generally...including non-efficient weaponry, and allows multiple counting. Look at Cheeks...he has 20, but not one of them is an "efficient weapon" which is what we were talking about. I inherited a bunch of "cowboy guns" (1800's type things) which would drive up your data in a way that is also irrelevant to our discussion. Your data is misleading, and it does not mean that "efficient weaponry" is more readily available in the US to such an extent to explain the greater use of such weapons over the Swiss.
The Swiss have access to AR equivalents as a matter of right (essentially..."shall issue" purchase permits...and a decade ago even that wasn't required), but they even have ready access to fully automatic weapons (super-efficient weapons, to use a variant of the type of language you are using). But also, the Swiss data is unreliable. It wasn't too long ago that all able bodied men were required to have automatic weapons in their homes, ready for use in case of invasion. (The Swiss have a culture which thinks about such things.) And, they were apparently not tracked in public data. In 2008, the Swiss started tracking firearms, and they only tracked arms which changed hands and were voluntarily registered by the owners. The data there is suspect.
Either way, they have as easy access now as we do. That tells us that something else is in play. Perhaps they treat mental illness differently. Perhaps they have a homogenous society that isn't dividing itself on racial lines for political benefit. I don't know. But "efficient weapon" access is at least identical, and even leans toward more access in Switzerland than the US.
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find the gunshots and take out the shooter immediately.
I haven’t heard on this one but I assumed they did go in right away.
Columbine school shooting in 1999 changed everything.
"Ramos, 18, broke into the school despite being confronted outside by an officer who did not open fire, officials detailed Wednesday. He was inside for up to an hour as SWAT officers reportedly waited for a staff member to bring a key for the classroom he was barricaded in."
Unfuckingbelievable.
to do this. All the scumbag politicians want to score points based off of 19 children getting killed by a madman. This is being done on both sides is truly disgusting. This asshole had issues and I am sure they were known by the people around him. This behavior just doesn't pop up in a day.
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with him? Unfucking believable. That officer needs to answer for that. He was one of the main safe guards we have been discussing, and he failed miserably
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Police waited outside while the shooter continued to murder a total of 17 at Stoneman Douglas in FL.
Columbine did not change everything.
Edit: typo
why some agencies aren’t doing this.
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And from what I'm reading, the same in Texas. It's too late when they enter once the gunfire as ended.
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I believe he worked at Wendy's or some fast food joint.
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But, I know when my son got a job at a local fastfood place, he set a goal of buying a cool car, so he mizerly put away every dollar he could. He never bought that car (because we let him borrow one of ours at college, and he decided he was good with an uncool car), but he opened up a Roth IRA instead and put a few thousand in it. (Proud moment for me, but that was all on his initiative & decision.) So, I can see how that kid could have afforded that stuff...especially if he had no social life, which seems quite likely.
And the people with the mental health issues tend to not talk about it either. I know of three members within my family circle who effectively clam up and refuse to discuss it.
It is hereditary and it manifests itself in many different ways. Things are better than they were 40 years ago and the meds are far better which makes it odd that these serious issues are on the increase; likely because individuals and their families refuse to confront the mental health issue and get proper medication.
Then there are those who automatically blame the parents.
Certainly, upbringing can be a big factor, but some kids are born with, or develop, mental illness apart from parents who raise other perfectly normal and well adjusted children. When you have a child like that, you need help. Society is not there for them, and those parents know many will blame them, so they try to keep things quiet and hope the kid will "grow out of it." Then, the "kid" ends up on the streets as an adult, and bad things happen. Not the best approach for people like Ramos.
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