"Hello, is there anybody in there?"
The interview is in the link.
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Amidst his ongoing “This Is Not a Drill Tour,” Roger Waters sat down with CNN’s Michael Smerconish to discuss the overly political themes and messages presented at his concert.
Smerconish began the interview by asking Waters why he labeled President Joe Biden a “war criminal.” “Well, he’s fueling the war in the Ukraine,” the former Pink Floyd member responded. “That is a huge crime. Why won’t the United States of America encourage [Volodymyr] Zelensky to negotiate, obviating the need for this horrific, horrendous war?”
When Smerconish pointed out that Waters was “blaming the party who got invaded,” Waters countered by criticizing NATO for forcing Russia’s hand. “Well, any war, when did it start? What you need to do is look at the history, and you can say, ‘Well, it started on this day.’ You could say it started in 2008… This war is basically about the action and reaction of NATO pushing right up to the Russian border, which they promised they wouldn’t do when [Mikhail] Gorbachev negotiated the withdrawal of the USSR from the whole of Eastern Europe.”
Waters also dismissed Smerconish’s argument that the US has a role of “liberators.” “You got into World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor. You were completely isolationists [beforehand],” Waters argued. “Thank god the Russians had already won the bloody war by then. 23 million Russians died, protecting you and me from the Nazi menace.”
“I would suggest that you… go away and read a bit more, and try to figure out what the US would do if the Chinese were putting nuclear armed missiles into Mexico and Canada,” Waters added.
When Smerconish noted that the Chinese are “too busy encircling Taiwan as we speak,” Waters fired back by proclaiming: “Taiwan is part of China. That has been absolutely accepted by the whole of international community since 1948. If you don’t know that you aren’t reading enough…. You are believing your side’s propaganda. You can’t have a conversation about human rights and Taiwan without actually doing the reading.”
“The Chinese didn’t invade Iraq and kill a million people in 2013,” Waters added. “Who have the Chinese invaded and slaughtered?”
“Their own,” Smerconish answered, referring to the Uyghurs and other mostly-Muslim groups who China have placed in “re-education camps” and been subjected to forced sterilization and forced label.
“Bullocks! That’s absolute nonsense! Absolute nonsense!” Waters responded.
Link: He's been smoking through a contaminated hookah.
his view. That means TY's propaganda failed on him. The truth of facts enlightened him.
I never called Joe a war criminal and disagree with this call from Waters. I do find Joe's "fighting a proxy war with Russia until last Ukrainian" strategy immoral though. I also believe eventually Ukrainians will hate us for the role we played in this Ukraine-Russia politics. One day, not this generation, maybe next generation will blame us for ruining their country.
But Waters got this right: This war is basically about the action and reaction of NATO eastern expansion, pushing NATO right up to the Russian border. History will give the judgement that action started by U.S/NATO, Russia/Putin is reaction.
PS, Thank you for faithfully following my posts. But I still despise you.
Link: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/roger-water-russia-ukraine-1319000/amp/
Waters is dead wrong and so are you. This war has zero to do with NATO. The invasion is well known to be Putin wanting to pull in all
the valuable satellite countries that were once with the Soviet Union. NATO and the who Nazi stuff is for fools like you who haven't brains
enough to evaluate what is real. You're a sucker.
As I posted - Comfortably Numbskull. You're wrong every day on this and it's not going to change anytime soon. MAS is also wrong.
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geography, all three of those nations directly border Russia. No issue there.
This has zero to do with NATO.
It has zero to do with Nazism. It's all about bringing back wealth and food sources to the Russian
empire.
You misunderstood Russia's restraint. You, step by step, corned Russia. Then Russia finally punched back at you when you made the last step to break red line and Russia has nowhere to step back. Russia didn't punch at you on your first step, but it doesn't mean your first step (second step as well ) has nothing to do with Russia's punching back at your last step.
It also applies to Finland. Assume Finland join NATO today and Russia is unable to fight 2nd war against Finland today because of Ukraine war. But it doesn't mean Finland's NATO membership is not the reason why Russia starts war in 10 years on Finland.
Really it’s just bullshit invented by Putin.
I’ve said it, wealth, food supply and even ego but not NATO.
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NATO is the instigating factor. Yes, the Ukrainians will hate us, not love us in the future. I don't know how many times that particular lesson must learned.
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You can sit down now.
and anyone who says the rhetoric is correct is wrong. Neither of you have anything to back up those statements.
Sure, NATO countries individually giving assistance to Ukraine makes it look as though they're the bogeyman Putin says they are
but they're not. They made no advancement against Russia. Russia says things but there is no proof NATO did anything to
push Russia into Ukraine. It's made up - Much like the MAGA movement. Lies and more lies and the likes of you, Eli, Waters
and more fall sharply into the bullshit. And then you repeat it.
he only person here sputtering the same thing over and over again is you. As near as I can tell, the only counterargument you attempted to offer was, "Well what about Lithuania?" Are you seriously arguing that Russia's recent history with Lithuania is comparable to its recent history with Ukraine? Are you sure that the opinions of Russia of Lithuanians mirrors that of Ukrainians? See, Jim, once again, you are offering simplistic, unsupported assertions that seem more products of Twitter posts you read than someone knowledgeable about the situation.
NATO in 2004 all three were part of the USSR. They broke away from Russia in the 80's - inevitable, yes. There was no big secret there. 4 years after Putin came to power.
If NATO is the issue now, they would have been the issue in 2004.
The argument is Ukraine doesn't need to be the same as the Baltic's, they broke away from Russia as an independent and are happy to stay that way. That's it.
There is no NATO incursion into Russia - there's no statement that says Ukraine wants to take over Russia - There is only Russia invading Crimea 7 years ago
and now Russia wants all of it.
There is no NATO is at fault. There is no argument Ukraine was attacking Russia - It's Russia's gambit.
Putin needs a show of strength and he saw Ukraine as vulnerable. All this other stuff is smoke. And, sad to say, you're a sucker for it. You can parse it anyway you want
this is all on Russia, not NATO, not Nazism or any other spin you can find.
There is no argument - there isn't even an opinion - It's a fact - Russia invaded a sovereign nation. That's it!
Also didn't argue the denazification angle, either.
Then more of your arguments by assertion. Do you know that Ukraine not a NATO member? There have been movements that way. Zelensky recently asked why NATO has not admitted Ukraine. Since you brought up geography, what would Ukraine's membership look like on a map, in relation to Russia?
But all of this is taking us off course. My first posts dealt with why we should not get involved in sending tens of billions and weapons. What is the objective evidence that this will change the outcome? More importantly, why do you think it's worth risking nuclear war to help Ukraine? Do you think Russia becomes more hostile or less hostile to the US when the US sends billions and also weapons? Do you think Putin is a psychopath or mentally disturbed? If so, why would we want to antagonize such a person who has a nuclear arsenal?
Russia invaded Ukraine. Again, you're all jumping in on the red-herring.
You, Waters, Eli are all wrong. Anyone who promotes any other tale about NATO or Ukraine asking NATO about membership or Nazism
or any .... You're all wrong. That's it. Russian invaded because Putin thought like Crimea, Georgia it would be a simple and effective takeover.
Wealth and food sources. Nothing else.
It's telling that you won't answer my questions. I don't know that anyone will. It's such a vapid position to take: "He's another Hitler!" "Better to fight them now than later!" "We have a moral obligation!" And then, when pressed revert to a strategic rationalization.
But the Ukrainian flag avatar looks good and support for sending billions for this quixotic escapade is a fine virtue signal. Vapid.
Smerconish knows completely well that we would treat that as an imminent threat to our security and we would have near-unanimous agreement within the two parties that initiation of military action would be warranted, yet, somehow, Russia is not entitled to the same thing. Oh, that's right, because we're the good guys and they're the bad guys. When we invaded Iraq, it was for noble reasons. When Joe was VP, it was perfectly fine for him to tell Ukraine's leadership to get rid of this official or else, but we would never allow a representative from some other nation to try to "leverage" who should be removed or added from our government.
There's a very simple lesson in all this: if the foreign policy action you would like to take against some other nation is something you would not tolerate it doing to you, then don't do it. Stop meddling in the political/military affairs of other nations, particularly when they are half-a-world away. Fortunately, I think we're living at a time when most of the people who actually show up to vote think the same thing. I don't think most voters are interested in ramping up our involvement in Ukraine and Taiwan and risking freaking nuclear wars. It's madness and I trust most voters understand this.
As if millions of people should just surrender to the leading despots on the planet, Maybe we should also? I wonder what would happen to our “creative” class under Putin and Xi?
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of empathy. Also fascinating that I never hear you guys getting maudlin about various African nations embroiled in these sorts of things. Where were you guys urging that we send billions to settle down South Sudan and restore the borders, all in the spirit of humanitarianism?
How, again, are you showing your "empathy" for the Ukrainians and Taiwanese? Posting on the UHND OF? Maybe you should go over there? We had an Abraham Lincoln Brigade here in the 1930s, composed of communist volunteers, who went over to Spain to fight Franco's nationalists during their civil war.
If we stop Putin here we will not spill our blood defending other European countries later.
previously centering your argument as a moral one. Funny how people do that...
This is insanity. You're playing with the fate of the world over Ukraine and blessed NATO obligations.
As much I appreciae Ukraine and Ukrainians (having actually been there}, if this were a dispute between two remote countries far from areas of our own long term interest I woild only suggest we try diplomacy.
We're forever meddling and intervening in the political and military affairs of other countries to "maintain stability." Deliberately nebulous phrase that can be used to justify nearly any foreign action undertaken by the right country. Nevermind that these interventions invariably worsen the situations. Great example of the William F. Buckley NY Phone Book Principle. I trust American voters more than the aforementioned groups. We'll see how it plays out.
Ukraine is the victim of a war of aggression launched by a man who kills opponents by feeding them radioactive isotopes or with nerve agents spread on doorknobs. He is a dangerous psychopath. He must be stopped.
I would point out the idiocy of provoking an autocratic psychopath who has nuclear weapons in a conflict that does not involve us. We are ratcheting up the level of danger for us by supplying arms and billions more dollars into a corrupt government with a fame-seeking quasi-democrat leader who poses for photos in a Vogue spread while his country is being ravaged. What a clown. Is Mad Magazine still around? Maybe Cracked for him. Then on the Vogue trip, he continues trying to guilt-trip us that we still haven't sent him enough billions and enough weapons. Let no good deed go unpunished...indeed.
I would question the mental health of anyone who suggests that we risk nuclear war over Ukraine or Taiwan. With the latter, I'm fairly certain that I will be on the opposite side of the right in the near future, as I am now with the left about Ukraine. If you really believe that Putin is a psychopath, you should be among the strongest voices arguing that we stay out of this mess. What do you think is going to happen by our involvement? Ukraine surges back, invades Russia and kills Putin? Just like Saddam? Spiffy.
That's basically the logic of war machine propaganda.
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