As I said before, once everyone has had ample chance to get vaccinated, that is the time to lift all restrictions, because everyone will have made their choice by then. We can say "the variants will get out of control and make the vaccines ineffective" all we want, but we cannot continue to mitigate for years in a vain hope of totally eradicating the virus. And make no mistake - that is what our health "leaders" are shooting at.
They are just fucked I guess?
vaccine that people have allergies to. This is why individuals are forced to wait for 15-20 minutes after the receiving the shot to insure they have no reaction. you are just trying to fear monger and guilt others into getting it.
shouldn’t be regulating and controlling people’s behavior. The dumbasses that won't vax ensure this stays around for awhile. That’s too bad. But it’s no longer a public health crises. I just don’t want to have to be in groups with the plague rats. Keep them away. I know the govt can’t do that constitutionally, but private persons and companies can and should.
The fact is that we are going to be lucky to get 60% vaccinated by year's end. And the people who don't get vaccinated will still get the virus, and according to the La Jolla Institute of Immunology, they will likely have years of immunity.
We don't need 80-90% to be vaccinated before we can return to normal. We can, and should, do this by mid-summer.
us where we are. But I can’t justify them anymore.
courage. You don’t try to find the fault in people you look to start with common ground and build on that trust. A true Catholic and a ND man. Your family must be so proud of you. Keep up the good work.
After that, all restrictions and mandates are dropped. Plague rats who won’t get vaccinated are to be shunned and ignored.
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But, removing a political football can be difficult in today's society.
Seriously though, why are people wearing masks outdoors when no one is around?
Medical knowledge requires it.
Get with the (liberal) program.
for it, but not a minute longer.
He was already on the stage without a mask...suddenly when he is to speak, he needs to find his mask, and Dr. Jill is searching for it for him. Setting the example...running circles around everyone.
He should be touting you don’t need to wear this if you get vaxxed. Tired of babysitting and worrying about juvenile minded, dumbasses. If you won’t get vaxxed, shame on you from a public health standpoint as you are perpetuating this thing surviving. But it’s under control and we will get the boosters we need. It is time to move on.
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...its privileges.
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Everyone there is just as sick of you, as it happens, I guess.
And I’m still appalled that you are teaching your hatred and divisiveness to our children. You are really the problem. As I told you before if I can get you fired I will. You are a real harm.
that it is depressing when I run into antivaxers who are worried about nanobots being injected with the vaccine or about the “dangers of the Trump vaccine - I won’t take it”. Also, the AA community is very distrustful of the government as well.
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Medical knowledge is medical knowledge. You can't pretend that medical knowledge dictates policy. It doesn't. Policy makers evaluate medical knowledge, and then make decisions. If you think those decisions are dictated by medical knowledge you are mistaken (and probably acting like a pussy).
It is dangerous to get into a car and drive to work. Lots of things could go wrong. You could die. Does medical knowledge dictate work from home from now on? Obviously it doesn't. Risks are undertaken by people every day who choose not to live in terror.
Man up.
Stop trying to bully other people into being pussies, and calling it "showing empathy."
engage, and you are his willing 'stand-in', you have to take the 'slings and arrows'...the sheer lack of productive dialogue is frankly jaw-dropping thus far...so I'll ask you...what should be done to help us all get closer to 'herd immunity'?...While I accept the article's premonition (we probably won't get there), it also states that our degree of "safety" depends on how many more get vaccinated and how quickly...
As for me, I'm encouraging everyone I know to "take one for the team"...including those who I only know of through on-line posts.
Back to you...what are you doing to help make things better?
You said: "so I'll ask you...what should be done to help us all get closer to 'herd immunity'?"
Two steps:
1) Vaccinate the willing.
2) Allow the unwilling to be infected by ending the shut down; eliminating mask requirements, ending social distancing, opening schools and restaurants, etc.
3) Start preparing next year's covid vaccines. (as we do with the flu).
Do it immediately. Don't wait for mutations.
What is yours? Mandatory vaccinations?...probably the only medically robust response.
You said: "As for me, I'm encouraging everyone I know to "take one for the team"...including those who I only know of through on-line posts."
Everyone in my family is vaccinated. That will have to be good enough for me. I don't get into other people's lives.
You said: "Back to you...what are you doing to help make things better?"
I am encouraging people to man up, and stop worrying about Covid if you've been vaccinated, and stop worrying about Covid if you choose not to be vaccinated. I see no other choice in a free society. And, my plan has the advantage of opening up our economy. Granted, it doesn't matter if we spend 5 times more than we collect in taxes; the country is doomed anyway.
Don't pretend that an argument that you don't agree with is part of a non-substantive conversation. This is a substantive, and reasonable response in a society that respects people taking responsibility for their own actions. I can see how you might think it is non-substantive if you prefer a centrally managed, low freedom society.
And a certain % of people who have been infected have immunity. It's possible that as many as 20%-30% of the population have preexisting immunity.
Anyway, if you add the number of people who were already immune and the number of people who have been infected (who haven't gotten the vaccine) to say 60% of the population getting vaccinated, reaching 80%-90% is very plausible.
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Forgot or ignored, the result is the same. Inaccurate predictions.
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After the WHO declared it a global pandemic they couldn't figure out why it wasn't worse. It took them many months until they finally figured out that a large percentage of the population had preexisting T-cell immunity. My guess is they've been too busy to really study it yet and so they are ignoring it in their predictions.
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BTW, as the attached report indicates, there are significant differences between the various types of "H1N1" and SARS-COV-2.
Link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7553061/
What does the linked article have to do with the price of tea in China?
while the linked article is just a smidgen of an insight into the incredibly detailed analysis that ID professionals put into this - and every other - pandemic, each and every day...indeed for decades...yet you feel confident in accusing them of overlooking critical aspects they should have attended to. Such talk immediately strikes me as hubris...that's what I'm saying.
BTW, not sure if you scanned the link, but it shows the considerable 'delta' between H1N1 (of which there's more than one), and the COVID-19 viruses, so you need to be careful trying to compare them, and/or the steps taken to combat them.
Bottom line for me...TRUST the folks that do this for a living...and have had success beating pathogens in the past.
First, I never made any "bold" statement. I asserted that something was plausible.
Secondly, I never said or even implied that H1N1 and COVID 19 had ANY similarities. None. And you felt compelled to "educate" me on all of the differences. WTF?
And I have noted that neither you or Chris have provided any explanation (reasonable or otherwise) as to why T Cell immunity isn't included as part of these discussions on herd immunity.
their predictions"...if that doesn't fill in the blanks for "Bold Statement" and "Guesses/Assumptions", I don't know what would. An absolute lack of backup support for an "Opinion".
Back to you...this should be good.
And I DID provide evidence. I provided the FACT that the scientists made the same “miss” in the data with H1N1. At least I made an effort in providing a reason for the missing data. Where is your fact-based explanation?
And just so I am clear, I don’t expect them to have access to this information yet. It takes time and they are focused on other priorities. At the same time I expect them to call out why their projections on herd immunity could be off. They aren’t doing that.
Are you denying that a % of the population has preexisting T cell immunity?
That is what I call a 'Bold Statement'...especially the use of "always ignore". Again, you'll need to bring some support for that to continue a reasoned discussion...we have only your own 'Opinion' that such a bold statement is indeed 'Fact'.
But let's not try to set a record for posts on a single thread here...we're all getting pretty "PO'd" at not being able to live a normal life...I'm with you there. Sorry if I came on too strong...it's not my goal (you'll have to trust me on that) to 'score points' for "my side" (which has a population of One)...just hoping we can find more ways to "trust" in those who's primary objective is keeping as many Americans (and other Planet Earth inhabitants) alive and healthy as possible.
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I'm sure there are differences...not sure that nullifies all possible analogies.
edumacating all of us though.
Check your common sense at the door because we know skientists would never report anything that isn't accurate.
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surviving C19 - your thesis isn't all that plausible.
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yes - seeing you're the great scientist at large here on the Open.
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you're not trying. It's plausible.
It's the "memory T cells," which tell the body how to make the antibodies if covid shows back up.
The immune system is amazing.
That's over about 112M confirmed cases.
You're right about the T cells, there was also a study I saw where they tested blood bank blood from 2015-2018 and found T Cells recognizing Covid 19 in 40%.
virus and I have protection now for at least as long as any normal joe that gets the vaccine. My body now knows how to respond to the spike protein, which is exactly why the vaccine is designed to train your body how to do.
never got the virus (or it was so mild they never knew it).
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but it is what is. Just keep them away.
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“The vast majority of the mortality and of the stress on the health care system comes from people with a few particular conditions, and especially people who are over 60,” Dr. Lipsitch said. “If we can protect those people against severe illness and death, then we will have turned Covid from a society disrupter to a regular infectious disease.”
This is what we do with the flu. Inoculate as many of the high risk individuals as possible, and as many people as are willing to get stuck. Not sure how that is depressing to you.
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Then we can get herd immunity.
I’ve been clear on that.
When I went for my first vaccine, the line was long...took awhile. When I went for my second shot, there was no line; I received it immediately. Something tells me that everyone has had a chance to get it.
I checked out at the grocery store the other day, and I was trying to figure out which door they were funneling everyone through in order to maximize contact and minimize social distancing, and as I stood there, I was offered a vaccine. I said, no, just looking for the funnel of death / kill zone exit door...oh, this door where I get to meet everyone leaving at the same time?...thanks! Follow the science indeed.
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