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... the way they are going the best that can be achieved would be to postpone the inevitable.

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If you wish to discuss dhimmitude you really should start your own thread on the subject. :^(

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. We are attempting to spend our way out of the mess and it is spending that got us into this mess. We are on our way to socialized healthcare and banks, not capitalism.

How can a country that is about to nationalize its banking system call itself the "bastion of capitalism?". In my opinion the US is moving towards socialism, not capitalism. Your banks and insurance companies and carmakers should go bankrupt and die. In the vacuum that follows, better banks, insurers and carmakers will emerge. Nationalizing those industries won't make them better.

I know it's your poll, but I think the most appropriate wording might consider whether the US will retain its position as the world's economic engine? To that question, I'd say yes in the short term, but no in the long term. The Age of the American Consumer (or as Lance has correctly noted, the baby boomer), which has driven so much of the domestic growth in the US over the last decade, is coming to an end. It is causing all sorts of problems around the world (uh, duh!), but what is going to emerge out the otherside of this recession is a world economy that isn't going to look to the American consumer for growth. That growth is going to come from the huge numbers of Indian and Chinese families moving into the middle class, and bringing all that purchasing power with them.

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Or possibly after the Second Civil War.

Too early to tell.

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I'm not bashing your decision to buy S&W, but did want to relate some information.

Most all law enforcement agencies in Florida carried the S&W 9mm when I moved here in '89. Most determined that the 9mm just doesn't have the stopping power needed, so the research started and most agencies switched to .45 cal and most went to S&W. Well made and reliable.

Soon they realized that 9 rounds ain't enough and the switch to .40 cal was on. This time Glock figured prominently in the equation and far out performed the S&W .40 cal pistols. Very well made, fewer moving parts, better warranty, can drop it in the dirt and sand then pick it up and keep shooting, non exposed hammer is nice too.

I carry the model Glock model 23 and 2 weeks ago shot a perfect 250 out of 250 on my department test and 40 out of 40 on the Florida Department of Law Enforcement test (which is mandated by the State.) I honestly don't think I would have shot as well with most other guns.

S&W felt better in my hand and I guess I wanted to buy American - which is strange because I dont when it comes to cars.

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FLIrish:

Both of us have been around a lot of firearms as well as firearm training. As you know, squeezing the trigger is the first rule of firearm accuracy. In the Marine Corps their is a premium placed on being able to accurately shoot a firearm and substantial training in that regard.

I have also been involved in numerous firefights and have never seen a Marine squeeze a trigger under those conditions. Keep in mind, these Marines had also been involved in numerous fire fights.

It is scary to think what would happen if armed and semi-trained civilians ever had to pull out their guns in a highly charged situation. Someone may get shot but it may not be the bad guy.

Tom

are those that have already done it.

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models 22 and 23, which are the full size and compact respectively, go for around $500-600.

The biggest problem is the fear, floating around the Country now, that B.O. is going to outlaw new gun ownership. This is making the gun prices inflate very artificially.

Glock gets a subsidy to sell firearms to law enforcement at a discounted rate, but we don't get near the discount we used to.

For anyone considering buying a gun: I am opposed to people buying firearms with no or little training. Even if they have military experience. A gun owner MUST be proficient in the handling of their gun, because as Judge Hynes alluded to, if you don't use it, the bad guy will.

Hell, after our police academy training we still have to go through a minimum of 24 hours of training and firing a minimum of 600 rounds before we can carry a gun. I would honestly recommend a shooting school that makes you shoot at least 500-750 rounds AFTER at least 8 hours of classroom training.

and check the ceiling tiles in the bathroom. I probably won't find a Glock .40 but you can't really complain about the type of gun you find when it's free.

Was one of the funniest things I had seen in a while. His experience with hand guns at the time was watching Miami Vice. So when he got his range rented pistol (Beretta 9mm) he pointed it straight down to the ground between his legs and was walking bow legged. Before I could say anything to him, one of the range officers told him to simply point the pistol straight up in the air and not to load it until he was at the firing block and ready to shoot.

I had some training in the military regarding pistols, but would absolutely take a training course on them before bringing it into my house. You could get killed before you even realize you made a mistake...

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IMO, you should have a group of at least 3 friends that are heavily armed as well. You need people that can lay down suppressive fire when the time calls for it and with 4 people you can set up effective ambushes with plenty of crossfire.

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and the wife can still handle the thing if you ever need her for backup. Now if you were really smart you would buy a whole mess of AK-47's and strategically hide them around your house and yard.

the .44's had a lot of kick and were much more expensive. A .38 while very easy to use I could not hit the broadside of a barn with. A 9 mm does not have a lot of power and it seemed that the .40 ws a good compromise of all of them.

TNIRISH:

That way, when someone shoves the gun up your ass it won't hurt as much.

Tom

a good idea either.

TNIRISH:

I have never understood why people feel so insecure that they need to own a gun.

Tom

future and well I think that there could be some civil unrest in the future.

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the near future so you may as well buy it while you can still get it for a semi-decent price sale.

I weigh every 10th round, so as not to blow my hands off. Mostly .45s, (wad cutters) but some .223 cal.(Spitzer) I also mold my own .45 bullets.

Try and tax that.

I need to gain ammo reloading skills. Unfortunately, I'm a bit of a dumbass.

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Link: It's not that hard, you just need to be meticulous.

That seems silly - but I did get a gun - I just need to go shoot some stuff. I have promised that I will take a gun safety course next month.

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A good Rod & Gun Club will book NRA, Police and Military experts for specialized training.

Here are some of the training courses offered at my club:

N.R.A. Basic Pistol Class

NRA Basic Pistol: Included in the instruction will be Safety, Operation of both Revolvers and Semi-automatics, Ammo, Carrying, Storing, Transporting, Buying, Air Pistols, Cleaning, Shooting Fundamentals and more. The NRA Basic Pistol course is taught by NRA Certified Instructors and the class size is limited to eight people. The course starts at 8:00 am and lasts for 9-10 hours and the cost is $80.00. A certificate is issued upon the successful completion.

NRA “First Steps”: Designed to present the most important fundamentals of firearms safety, handling, shooting and maintenance for the new shooter, specific to the firearm they are using. Will also serve as an excellent review for the person who has had a long absence from shooting and range work. The course starts at 9:00 am and lasts for 4-5 hours and the cost is $60.00.

NRA Personal Protection Home: Designed to present and develop awareness, mindset, strategies and tactics for defense of self, family and home in case of criminal/violent intrusion or attack. Course is built around the NRA concept of “Have a Plan.” Course includes considerable range work on practical and tactical shooting. Prerequisite: NRA “First Steps” Pistol or NRA Basic Pistol Course or an equivalent formal shooting experience. The course starts at 8:00 am and lasts for 9-10 hours and the cost is $110.00.

NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home/Advanced Personal Protection: 2 day course. Presentation-concealed carry, tactical and defensive techniques including shooting while moving. Cost is $190.00.

Our fore fathers didn't write the second amendment wasn't written for hunters.

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walking the streets.

they feel like they have a better chance protecting themselves.

pretty easy question, hunh?

and good luck with the resulting surgery from shooting your own balls off, tough guy.

please don't use your own abilities/experiences as the standard for others. that was totally inane.

now go strap on your bullet-proof jock before you blow your brains out.

You think owning a gun is going to somehow insulate you from the horrors to be wrought by the government, and you are espousing this foolhardy belief in a thread that has to do with the administration's ECONOMIC policies. Please explain what benefit you think will inure to you or others (in this context) from the possession of a gun.

I believe that the euphemism is "Social Unrest".

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This next one's gonna' make 1964 look like a rehearsal.

Oh...BTW, where is it that you live?

And if I did, my having a gun wouldn't make much of a difference.

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Plus, it's fun to shoot watermelons and stuff.

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A number of friends think that we're on the precipice of unprecedented social change for the worse. Seems unlikely that violence would erupt, but one scenario where it might is if the people who are actually paying taxes stop doing so and end up fighting those who aren't. But, lucky for me, I live in a town where handguns are banned, and our biggest neighbor, Chicago, also bans handgun ownership. So I am safe right?

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

"When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe."

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."

TJ is my homie

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