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Trump handed Biden a shit sandwich in Afghanistan.

Biden was at the helm and is accountable for the clusterfuck withdrawal, albeit under extremely challenging circumstances.

Biden’s decision to end our military presence in that country was the correct call. It was 15 years overdue.

Now explain why the withdrawal and loss of life gives you so much pleasure?

Please don’t tell us because you care about our image and standing abroad, as you continue to support Trump’s actions.

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If you don't think that shitshow had bearing on calculations by Putin and Xi you are delusional.

I blame Joseph Robinette Biden and his hapless lack of leadership. Doddering fool.

thousands of Afghans who risked their lives for our troops...and that was was back at the start of his administration...there's lots more to talk about, but you don't seem to want to defend him...instead you move elsewhere in this thread to continue complaining about how poorly you believe Biden handled the lousy deal Trump left him with...you have some work to do here...

acknowledge...Biden's problems stem from Trump just wanting to get a deal...any deal...before he finished his term. Moreover, Trump and his admin did all they could to roadblock any Afghanis from entering the U.S....even the thousands that had been protecting our troops...by contrast, Biden extended the exit date from May 1, 2021 to August so that as many of those heroic Afghanis could get out...to the tune of over 120,000...he (Biden) also expended every effort to re-patriate American citizens and Green Card holders, with only a few hundred remaining who couldn't decide whether or not to leave...see below...

https://rollcall.com/2021/10/26/hundreds-of-americans-remain-in-afghanistan-pentagon-official-says/

Not surprising that you don't want to be candid about what caused all the challenges Biden faced...your biased Afghan history only starts on Jan. 20, 2021.
s


Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/19/trump-officials-scramble-distance-his-taliban-deal/

fault.

Biden was president and created the debacle. It is not Trump's fault that Biden was so terrible. Biden reversed every single thing trump did in the first weeks of his presidency. But you would have us believe this was different? Laughably ridiculous. Go peddle that garbage in the Mother Jones comment section, clown.

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I’m talking about, at a minimum, actually planning for the avoidance of a debacle. Perhaps listening to his military advisors?

Although I personally think it was a mistake to pull out (dumb from both Trump and Biden), at least it could have been accomplished without being the total clusterfuck that it was. That is ALL on Biden.

He affirmatively did not. Thousands of Taliban "troops" had been released and had amassed ready for the date by which the U.S. had to leave which was also set by the Trump administration.

There is no doubt the Biden administration mishandled the exit terribly. However, he didn't (1) create the mess nor (2) have a choice, unless you wanted more troops put back in and an escalation of the war.

Blinken is pretty useless, but could probably be counted on to tell the Taliban that the time was pushed back. Recall that the moron, Biden, thought that a pullout on 9/11 would be some sort of symbolic victory? What a joke.

Furthermore, his administration was awful in terms of coordinating with our fucking NATI allies. Just inexcusable all around.

And the several thousand Taliban soldiers that had already retaken outer regions would have just chilled and waited. Of course!

Than what that clown crew delivered

forget our Afghan allies...

which was less than poorly defensible. The Soviets built both bases but Bagram was built to be defensible which was improved on by the US.

Just consider the location of Karzai versus Bagram and the surroundings It is more than apparent that an idiot selected the evacuation to be from Karzai, probably only taking into account that it was an international airport and never considering that it was tactically indefensible. Consequently, there was chaos trying o evacuate people in an orderly fashion.

I know you like to fall back on Mr. Trump's supposed agreement with the Taliban and keeping a date cast in stone, but that is a fool's errand:

1) If intelligence was aware of the Taliban militarily moving in other parts of the country;
2) If the intelligence was not used to make that determination; and
3) It was not written in stone to leave on a certain date. For the love of all that is holy, the secdef and Mr. Biden were supposed to be leaders, they were supposed to look at the whole picture and say, this will not work for us and our allies. "Hey," Bagram is out in the middle of the fucking desert and it was built as a citadel, hmmm?

that process to not be impeded by civilian activity on the base. I"m also thinking that Kabul was where the majority of evacuees were and where our embassy was, and staff there was continuing the harrowing process of authorizing our friendly Afghan allies...makes some sense to me...what's your take on that aspect?

As for the date, Trump really set a very short fuse and Biden should be given huge credit for extending it to the end of August...thus allowing over 120,000 Afghans to leave who wouldn't have been able without that extension...surely, you can agree with that.

Any further extension was out of the question...the Taliban was increasing its attacks and ISIS-X (?) was becoming a serious threat as witnessed by the bombing in Kabul...


Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/07/02/bagram-afghanistan-biden-war/

Are you nucking futs?

From the Wapo article:

"The U.S. military has vacated its most important airfield in Afghanistan, defense officials said Friday, a strategic and emotional milestone in a 20-year U.S. war that the Pentagon is preparing to end.
But there were signs on Friday that disintegrating security in Afghanistan is causing a partial shift in the speed of the military’s plans. While U.S. officials had said recently they anticipated that Army Gen. Austin “Scott” Miller — the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan for nearly three years — would depart within days, the Pentagon announced on Friday that he will remain in command for several more weeks, as the Biden administration develops plans to continue aerial surveillance and, if needed, carry out counterterrorism strikes without U.S. troops on the ground."

So they damn well knew the situation with respect to Bagram and the blind fools in the defense department and the admin couldn't make a decision on their own and royally effed up. Keep to the schedule men, nothing more important.
They acted the same as the blind fools described in Homer's The Odyssey:

"Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns ...
driven time and again off course, once he had plundered
the hallowed heights of Troy.
Many cities of men he saw and learned their minds,
many pains he suffered, heartsick on the open sea,
fighting to save his life and bring his comrades home.
But he could not save them from disaster, hard as he strove —
the recklessness of their own ways destroyed them all,
the blind fools, they devoured the cattle of the Sun
and the Sungod blotted out the day of their return.
Launch out on his story. Muse, daughter of Zeus,
start from where you will — sing for our time too."

Yes, the blind fools.


Link: https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-T2WaiIPwOMJF1pR3/Homer-The-Odyssey-Fagles_djvu.txt

limited troops to Kabul.

> Bagram needed to be closed and all equipment, systems and sensitive materials removed...that task would be seriously impeded if civilians were roaming all over the place during that effort...just try to imagine the scene.
> Kabul was where all the evacuees and Embassy staff were located...the process of vetting the Afghanis was critical to getting them out and the Embassy staff lived in Kabul...for security reasons, why 'Bus' them...and the tens of thousands of evacuees 45 miles each day...how would that be done 'Securely' with very limited U.S. forces?

While the Bagram piece of this puzzle is notable, let's gain some altitude and take a look at this whole Afghan situation from your approved 'ceiling'...Biden was handed a mission with basically NO PLANNING done...just a 'way too early' execution date and a 'promise' from the Taliban to assure safe passage of U.S. troops ONLY...not the Afghanis who were the object of our extended stay beyond May 1st...can you appreciate that?

"On 27 Oct, shortly after midnight, explosions hit MMAF and the Chu Lai SATS field. An estimated force of 90 men from main force VC units, in four teams, launched a well-planned, coordinated attack on MMAF. They attacked the H&MS-16 hangar area; the MAG-16 bunker area; the flight line, and the maintenance and administrative tents of the squadrons. Afterwards they began a methodical attack on each helicopter. “VMO-2 was practically wiped out.” The sappers destroyed 19 helicopters and damaged another 35 that evening, killing three Marines; two from VMO-2, and a Navy corpsman on medevac standby."

I was in VMO-2 and that night those mf'ers were running rampant all over the place because someone decided that the perimeter security was sufficient. It wasn't. In the morning a Maine platoon was brought in. As an aside, The actor Tab Hunter's brother was a medic with VMO-2 and was one of those killed that night.

You wrote that Bagram had to be closed and all of the material moved. Well, it seems as if they left plenty of equipment at Karzai and I'm not believing that everything was removed from Bagram. Again, relying on Trump's agreement is poppycock. Biden and his secdef could have just sad that we will move on our time schedule. Plus why give dates to the enemy? That is a stupid idea that Biden got from his time as vp to Obama. Why not say Trump was an idiot and the agreement wasn't worth crap so lump it Taliban? Since you are repeating your opinions, reread your earlier post and the paragraph that I copied in my reply.

I saw today that the admin tried to get away with some white wash paper on the pull out but the House Armed Services Committee threw the b.s. flag on them.


Link: https://www.popasmoke.com/chronology/

as well as strong opinion on the security of any location in a war zone...that being said, IMO the Afghan situation was very different from Vietnam for these reasons...

> Vietnam was a full-on war zone...while the Afghan withdrawal was being conducted under the terms of an agreement which required the Taliban not to attack U.S. forces...and they (Taliban) were definitely holding up their end of the deal...so it wasn't necessary to use a fortified base (Bagram) for travel.
> You have to admit that not just anyone was being allowed onto jet transports...there was a process...hectic, I'm sure...being conducted that involved the U.S. Embassy staff and others...they were all in Kabul, not Bagram...and if the security situation was as bad as you allude to in your Chu Lai recollection, then it would be nearly suicidal to transport those people to Bagram while leaving the Embassy, et al, in Kabul unprotected...note that we only had ~2,500 troops available.
> In the end, there was one serious breach of security from a lone ISIS suicide bomber in Kabul...not sure how you protect against that...again, no need to keep Bagram fully operational and transport everyone 45 miles from Kabul.
> Let's not forget that due to the Biden admin's efforts we got 120,000+ Afghanis...who had our troops 'backs'...out of there...not unlike the South Vietnamese who helped us back then...and Trump's "Deal" had ZERO planning for even ONE Afghani refugee...those are facts, JH...you need to face them.

As for Biden being able to set any date he wanted, that's not reality...as soon as the "Deal" was signed, the Afgan government and military began to crumble...Biden should be credited for moving the date from May 1st to August...yet even then, he wanted September, but conditions were deteriorating at such a rate they couldn't even get that.

Bottom line...Trump set a totally unreasonable date for withdrawal of U.S. troops/equipment, with NO provisions at all for the safe passage of friendly Afghanis...with this as a starting point, it is remarkable that the Biden administration was able to accomplish what they did...especially given the rapidly deteriorating conditions.

Glad you mentioned Trump being an Idiot...hold that thought.

Biden had to power to change anything.

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I really can't imagine how it could have gone worse, and find anyone who attempts to defend the execution, beyond help.

Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/31/us-government-left-its-own-journalists-behind-afghanistan/

Special Visas into the U.S....plus no arrangements in place with other countries to take many of them...how was Biden supposed to fulfill that "Minimum Goal"?

If all we needed to do was remove the U.S. troops it would have been a piece of cake...the Taliban wasn't incentivized to attack them and Al-Qaeda/ISIS had not returned in strength by then.

So, that extension to August...under mounting stress from the Taliban, et al...had to accomplish the task starting from 'scratch'...and you expect everything to go off without a hitch?...what world do you live in?

Trump made a horrible 'deal' that never included our "Allies"...and therefore failed to include even the "Minimum Goals"...

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creating the need for an incoming President to do what should have been done beforehand...i.e.

>Have many thousands of 'Special Visas' already prepared for the Afghanis who needed to be evacuated
>Accelerate the process for getting more Visas approved
>Have plans established for other countries to take certain numbers of refugees, knowing that not all wanted to go to the U.S.
>Leave time for the U.S. military to 'Clean' their bases of weapons and systems that should not fall into Taliban or other's hands

In short, May 1st would have been an absolute disaster...Biden extended it as far as he could...but even then, it wasn't sufficient due to Taliban fighters being released by Trump anxious to attack, as well as ISIS and Al-Qaeda fighters.

The 'Demand' for evacuation far exceeded the ability in that short timeframe to properly vet and transport them all...that is why you see the pictures of Afghanis hanging onto transport jets...Trump should have worked to include this process as part of his "Deal" with the Taliban...he FAILED, and created a very "challenging" task for Biden...any chance that was on purpose?...speculation, I admit, but given DJT is a Sociopathic and Malignant Narcissist, I feel I'm on solid ground.

Talk about a smelly situation...look to everything that took place before Jan. 20th of 2021.

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do would invalidate your 'drive by. shot...can't have that. You know I'm right, which is why you've consistently failed to fully engage on this whole issue...like I said...anytime you want to get serious about EVERYTHING that happened wrt the withdrawal from Afghanistan, let me know.

Bottom line...Afghanistan was just another of Trump's disasters that this country has had to endure...fortunately, he's coming to an end.e

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And no, the Afghan withdrawal did not impact Putin’s and Xi’s calculations.

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matter how low and dirty his malevolence is.

The fact your perspective rests with an incurious bohunk and tyrant wannabe is the shame that stains this entire nation is now something we must all bear daily.

The hapless victim, DJTRUMP is what all the world sees along with those daft enough to elect him. Xi and Putin are reacting to his years in office. They see the destruction he has wrought.

We should Thank the Lord for Biden keeping this country afloat in the seas of political tumult the trump dynasty piloted us into.

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hurt all but the very rich and set us apart as a country willing to destroy our standard of living chasing laughable climate change goals that other major countries could not care less about.

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step by step and show that the Biden admin did a remarkably good job of getting over 120,000 Afghans who aided us for 20 years out of there...do you really want to drag Trump through the mud again?

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Link: https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/09/28/top-generals-afghanistan-withdrawal-congress-hearing-514491

on the ground thanks to Trump's sole focus of getting only U.S. troops out, and NO AFGHANIS...nowhere near enough to ensure an 'orderly' withdrawal given Taliban, Al-Qaeda and ISIS increasing attacks...Biden could only play the hand he was dealt...no way could he increase that number of U.S. troops w/o giving the Taliban the pretext for attacks on them.

With a year behind us, you still haven't learned what really happened...at least start now and ditch the trope of Biden screwing up the Afghanistan withdrawal.


Link: https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/

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there was plenty of time to plan, except he fucked-up

had essentially shut down a vetting process that can take over a year to complete...we don't just have "Open Borders" ;-)...so he and his team were able to accelerate the process and work with other nations, who also need to 'vet' new immigrants, to have them take Afghanis as well...this takes TIME...and Biden, to his credit used as much as he could until Al-Qaeda and ISIS started making things very dangerous (remember the bombing at the airport in Kabul?).

Donald Trump had ZERO PLANS to get those people out of the country...like interpreters who saved American servicemen/women's lives (check out recent story of one Marine Major who got his interpreter and family out)...Trump did had no empathy or appreciation for them...at all..never once did he utter a word about aiding those who wanted to leave....frankly, I don't recall him saying anything about plans to remove American civilians either...do you?

Getting the Afghanis and American civilians out was the whole and sole purpose of extending the exit date from May 1 to the end of August...and Biden got over 120,000 Afghanis and all but a few hundred American civilians (who couldn't make a final decision) out, versus ZERO if he stuck with Trump's "Plan".

Given that hand, Biden did a 'remarkably good' job.

and his Afghanistan debacle.

a fucking disaster. You have no credibility or standing on this board, and You are not a good person. Your constant lying, and questionable moral character, has destroyed any credibility you sought to obtain

Said nobody.

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The family killed by Joe's righteous response to the airport bomb.

Afghanistan exit?...we don't want to leave anything out, given your obvious concern for what happened...isn't that right?

Scranton Joe: "You're not going to see scenes like in Vietnam. With helicopters evacuating the embassy."

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The State Department estimates that there are still 100-200 US citizens stuck in Afghanistan.

discussions of any exit from Afghanistan...note that "Special Visas" are essential for the orderly withdrawal of friendly Afghanis...

Link: https://www.npr.org/2019/05/01/718927688/no-visas-for-afghan-and-iraqi-interpreters

including the instances you're noting...sound like the right thing to do?

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