Summary, because I know most won’t read it: Trump took the boxes because of incompetence generated by the chaos of the end of the administration. There is no more sinister reason, like the conspiratorial crap out there.
Trump just had his people pack up whatever was around - and since he always considered that stuff his (and, I’d add, never thought the rules applied to him), he took all the boxes with him, not even really knowing what was in them. And he just petulantly refused to return them. There’s not much more to this than that.
Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.
Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/20/us/politics/trump-fbi-search.html
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Procedures, responses, etc. Highly dangerous stuff that he wanted to sell to the highest bidder. Will we hear any apologies, I wonder?
exactly what happened here. Trump can claim stupidity, but it won't change the offense...only, perhaps, the sentence he receives.
While DJT has a multitude of mental and ethical 'deficits', no one who resides in the Oval Office for four years can plausibly claim they don't know what a Top Secret/SCI document is, or why it is normally so protected....
This brings us to your level of competence and judgement...do you give DJT a "Pass" for having TS/SCI documents in his Mar-a-Lago home?
Anyway....we're taught lots and lots of things. You cherry pick your beliefs....so in a way...you're just as awful as Trump.
lay it out there for everyone to see...and comment on...
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"Those actions, along with Mr. Trump’s protracted refusal to return the documents in Florida to the National Archives, prompted the Justice Department to review the matter early this year. This month, prosecutors obtained a warrant to search Mar-a-Lago for remaining materials, including some related to sensitive national security matters. The investigation is active and expanding, according to recent court filings, as prosecutors look into potentially serious violations of the Espionage Act and obstruction of justice."
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Remember that the DOJ took the time and forethought to actually list the crimes that were applicable to the federal judges approval of the "Search and Seizure" Warrant...
Once again...what is your defense for Donald Trump's removal of any government owned documents...much less those with TS/SCI classification?
But that's not the point. Nothings going to happen to him about this. But I understand why you're pissed.
agree with them, for the simple reasons stated...btw, numerous individuals have been convicted of lesser offenses when it comes to mishandling confidential documents.
What is your supported reasoning for thinking DJT will "Walk Free"?...i.e. beyond what YOU think will happen.
Link: https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/i-think-hell-get-indicted-legal-insiders-warn-that-trump-could-soon-face-criminal-charges-he-cant-talk-his-way-out-of/articleshow/93668836.cms
Lesser people, but never a president. There is no precedent for this. They'll make very good legally reasoned arguments why he lawfully exercised his presidential privilege. You're simply relying on very slanted coverage from hostile media sources who are going to highlight only the most damning aspects of the case whilst giving no thought to mitigating facts or factors.
authoritative...name some knowledgeable attorneys who think this is a "nothingburger" and the verifiable sources.
Presidential records act trumps the statutes FBI claimed to justify the raid. See how this works now?
Provisions section...
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Provisions[edit]
Specifically, the Presidential Records Act:
Defines and states public ownership of the records.
Places the responsibility for the custody and management of incumbent presidential records with the President.
Allows the incumbent president to dispose of records that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value, once he or she has obtained the views of the Archivist of the United States on the proposed disposal in writing. [5]
Establishes a process for restriction and public access to these records. Specifically, the PRA allows for public access to presidential records through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) beginning five years after the end of the Administration, but allows the President to invoke as many as six specific restrictions to public access for up to twelve years. The PRA also establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent administrations to obtain special access to records that remain closed to the public, following a 30‑day notice period to the former and current Presidents.
Requires that Vice-Presidential records are to be treated in the same way as presidential records.
Establishes that Presidential records AUTOMATICALLY TRANSFER INTO THE LEGAL CUSTODY OF THE ARCHIVIST AS SOON AS THE PRESIDENT LEAVES OFFICE.[5] (emphasis mine_
Establishes procedures for Congress, courts, and subsequent Administrations to obtain “special access” to records from NARA that remain closed to the public, following a privilege review period by the former and incumbent Presidents; the procedures governing such special access requests continue to be governed by the relevant provisions of E.O. 13489
Establishes preservation requirements for official business conducted using non-official electronic messaging accounts: any individual creating Presidential records must not use non-official electronic messaging accounts unless that individual copies an official account as the message is created or forwards a complete copy of the record to an official messaging account. (A similar provision in the Federal Records Act applies to federal agencies.)
Requires that the President and his staff take all practical steps to file personal records separately from Presidential records.
Prevents an individual who has been convicted of a crime related to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records from being given access to any original records.
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So, after more than a year of essentially "begging" Trump to return all manner of items, including highly classified documents, the NARA alerted the DOJ that it needed help in getting those items in its rightful possession...therefore the Mar-a-Lago "Search and Seizure" warrant...and the list of crimes on it...not like NARA didn't say "Pretty Please" ;-).
Again...please provide the entire WSJ article dealing with the Presidential Records Act.
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The Trump Warrant Had No Legal Basis
A former president’s rights under the Presidential Records Act trump the statutes the FBI cited to justify the Mar-a-Lago raid.
By David B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey
Aug. 22, 2022 12:51 pm ET
Was the Federal Bureau of Investigation justified in searching Donald Trump’s residence at Mar-a-Lago? The judge who issued the warrant for Mar-a-Lago has signaled that he is likely to release a redacted version of the affidavit supporting it. But the warrant itself suggests the answer is likely no—the FBI had no legally valid cause for the raid.
The warrant authorized the FBI to seize “all physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§793, 2071, or 1519” (emphasis added). These three criminal statutes all address the possession and handling of materials that contain national-security information, public records or material relevant to an investigation or other matters properly before a federal agency or the courts.
The materials to be seized included “any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20, 2017, and January 20, 2021”—i.e., during Mr. Trump’s term of office. Virtually all the materials at Mar-a-Lago are likely to fall within this category. Federal law gives Mr. Trump a right of access to them. His possession of them is entirely consistent with that right, and therefore lawful, regardless of the statutes the FBI cites in its warrant.
Those statutes are general in their text and application. But Mr. Trump’s documents are covered by a specific statute, the Presidential Records Act of 1978. It has long been the Supreme Court position, as stated in Morton v. Mancari (1974), that “where there is no clear intention otherwise, a specific statute will not be controlled or nullified by a general one, regardless of the priority of enactment.” The former president’s rights under the PRA trump any application of the laws the FBI warrant cites.
The PRA dramatically changed the rules regarding ownership and treatment of presidential documents. Presidents from George Washington through Jimmy Carter treated their White House papers as their personal property, and neither Congress nor the courts disputed that. In Nixon v. U.S. (1992), the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia held that Richard Nixon had a right to compensation for his presidential papers, which the government had retained under the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act of 1974 (which applied only to him). “Custom and usage evidences the kind of mutually explicit understandings that are encompassed within the constitutional notion of ‘property’ protected by the Fifth Amendment,” the judges declared.
The PRA became effective in 1981, at the start of Ronald Reagan’s presidency. It established a unique statutory scheme, balancing the needs of the government, former presidents and history. The law declares presidential records to be public property and provides that “the Archivist of the United States shall assume responsibility for the custody, control, and preservation of, and access to, the Presidential records.”
The PRA lays out detailed requirements for how the archivist is to administer the records, handle privilege claims, make the records public, and impose restrictions on access. Notably, it doesn’t address the process by which a former president’s records are physically to be turned over to the archivist, or set any deadline, leaving this matter to be negotiated between the archivist and the former president.
The PRA explicitly guarantees a former president continuing access to his papers. Those papers must ultimately be made public, but in the meantime—unlike with all other government documents, which are available 24/7 to currently serving executive-branch officials—the PRA establishes restrictions on access to a former president’s records, including a five-year restriction on access applicable to everyone (including the sitting president, absent a showing of need), which can be extended until the records have been properly reviewed and processed. Before leaving office, a president can restrict access to certain materials for up to 12 years.
The only exceptions are for National Archives personnel working on the materials, judicial process, the incumbent president and Congress (in cases of established need) and the former president himself. PRA section 2205(3) specifically commands that “the Presidential records of a former President shall be available to such former President or the former President’s designated representative,” regardless of any of these restrictions.
Nothing in the PRA suggests that the former president’s physical custody of his records can be considered unlawful under the statutes on which the Mar-a-Lago warrant is based. Yet the statute’s text makes clear that Congress considered how certain criminal-law provisions would interact with the PRA: It provides that the archivist is not to make materials available to the former president’s designated representative “if that individual has been convicted of a crime relating to the review, retention, removal, or destruction of records of the Archives.”
Nothing is said about the former president himself, but applying these general criminal statutes to him based on his mere possession of records would vitiate the entire carefully balanced PRA statutory scheme. Thus if the Justice Department’s sole complaint is that Mr. Trump had in his possession presidential records he took with him from the White House, he should be in the clear, even if some of those records are classified.
In making a former president’s records available to him, the PRA doesn’t distinguish between materials that are and aren’t classified. That was a deliberate choice by Congress, as the existence of highly classified materials at the White House was a given long before 1978, and the statute specifically contemplates that classified materials will be present—making this a basis on which a president can impose a 12-year moratorium on public access.
The government obviously has an important interest in how classified materials are kept, whether or not they are presidential records. In this case, it appears that the FBI was initially satisfied with the installation of an additional lock on the relevant Mar-a-Lago storage room. If that was insufficient, and Mr. Trump refused to cooperate, the bureau could and should have sought a less intrusive judicial remedy than a search warrant—a restraining order allowing the materials to be moved to a location with the proper storage facilities, but also ensuring Mr. Trump continuing access. Surely that’s what the government would have done if any other former president were involved.
Messrs. Rivkin and Casey practice appellate and constitutional law in Washington. They served at the Justice Department and the White House Counsel’s Office in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations.
with when NARA takes possession of all Presidential records...the only timeframe I can find is one that states "IMMEDIATELY UPON LEAVING OFFICE" those records belong to NARA...i.e. there is no 'negotiation process'...Trump needed to turn them over upon leaving the White House...he didn't...and there were Top Secret/SCI documents in Mar-a-Lago, which either, or both DJT and his attorney(s) falsely denied...seems criminal to me...
Why hitch your wagon to that loser?
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The president has some pretty wide latitude here. There's a Reuters article I read about it a couple of weeks ago that had a good write up on it. You can find it pretty easy if you'd like.
But were I you, I'd follow the advice of the UHND academic advisor and find some other issue to busy your time with. There is nothing here. He's a villain no doubt. But he will not be "sentenced" as you noted.
You got played again Tyrone.
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Trump is an awful human, but to my knowledge never openly advocated for child abuse like Ty.
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Although your posts weren't nearly as coherent or well formulated. But, in your typical infantile fashion, you were forming similar thoughts patterns as Tyrone. Albeit, of course, at a much lower grade level.
If I thought you were capable of self reflection, I would commiserate with you for falling for the same bullshit. Again! Jeez dude.
And of course I write in hieroglyphics so you and the rest of the trumpians here are able to read my posts.
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Then again, maybe the GOP will be too principled, and decide not to raid the Bidens just because the Bidens did it to the Trumps.
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the nation by reworking the dialogue to give R's a reasonable path out.
I don't like it and I don't like it when journalists frame things like this (well nothing is really like this) event, fact with
with a consolation opinion.
Zongo was shot and killed by officer Conroy, hit four times in the back and side out of five shots taken.
He died some forty feet from where he claimed an altercation had taken place. Because of the circumstances
Conroy's defense was all about the Helter Skelter moments for a group of officers leading up to the actual shots
where Conroy (a neophyte newbie to the force) was the only witness other than the Deadman, Ousmane Zongo.
When this landed in court, not one juror believed that the Keystone Cop knuckleheaded acting officers outside the
building where Zongo was killed had anything to do with the man's death. It was Conroy's defense that this complicated
the atmosphere for the shooting but in reality, it had zero to do with the discharging of his weapon.
I point this out because, you can say these things but in reality, they have little to do with Trump keeping the documents
he knew he had to return (without being asked to) - then kept many classified documents after he and his lawyer
said they had returned all documents.
He had other plans for those documents.
What a waste of time. But congrats on giving Trump even MORE juice with this stupid stunt!
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Given his work experience he likely has some inside info. Small as it maybe....some. It's probably starting to circulate now that the DOJ FUCKED UP! Bigly.
But you're right. This will start making the rounds now within the MSM....."lowering the temperature" seems to be the face saving phrase that polled well.
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Nothing. Again.
Your vote here will go far to help him back into the Oval Office.
being Joe, right?
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Incompetence on all things is stunning. BTW, hit the ignore button Ahole
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about having great game pitching in slo pitch softball game.
windmill, it is modified.
Next time you feel the need to criticize my pitching, Mr. Popup - think again.
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you could hit a pitch from an NCAA girls team pitcher.
In fact, it’s more than likely a girl will strike you out in three. Big Mouth.
delusional. Were you always picked last in gym class?
Slow pitch. Maybe Jim couldn’t get into the local kickball league and had to go “modified”?
your daughter. We would especially welcome your daughter as a pitcher/player. We already have women (ex collegiate players - men too) players in the windmill league as well as a few ex-MLB players. Many have played in the modified leagues.
However, there is no bragging on my end. I’m a decent pitcher who was a darned good 3rd baseman. Now older, I have learned to pitch.
In that state. If you’re comfortable playing modified, so be it. I just think it’s funny. In my eyes, softball is meant for women. It’s their sport to shine and they do it really really well. I watch the Athlete Unlimited games that are on now and it’s great to see them get time on ESPN channels. The women are truly special athletes.
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At the point now where she scares me. Her ball is moving so much and her velocity has increased. The one thing Jim is right about is a normal guy will not touch a really good softball pitcher. I’ve seen baseball players not touch a college pitcher. It’s a totally different look and the distance is an issue.
Look up Joan Joyce when you get a chance. She struck out Ted Williams at an exhibition.
are totally different and would have to be relearned.
cares? You are embarrassing urself. BTW, that 60 mph gas yr bragging about is Jr. High level at the best. Maybe
you should work on yr pickle ball game.
about having great game pitching in slo pitch softball game." - Dottie Taintlicker.
as did he that all material outside his own personal material was to stay with the government.
No ambiguity with this. Incompetence isn't an excuse me out of jail card.
Not that I disagree that his last shining hours were a horrid keystone cops routine it just doesn't disqualify him from
being responsible and from being taken to task and even jailed for his actions.
Because a candy bar from the impulse bin at the counter happen to fall into your open backpack on its own doesn't
mean you get to keep it.
Then keeping other classified documents on their own and not returning them with the first set of boxes
returned to the Whitehouse once the government discovered and asked for them is even more reason to jail him.
And then to lie he had returned all documents when he hadn't, is also worthy of detention in the hoosegow.
He was going to monetize what he thought he was able to get away with and keep.
He's an incurious illiterate dumb fuck, but he ain't all that stupid. He had intent.
Sorry, I'm not buying into his chaos dust magnet incompetence as an excuse me, I didn't mean for this to happen.
I dropped my cell phone on the floor whilst speeding down a highway isn't an excuse for the accident you caused
that killed passengers of two other cars.
And t-shirts? It was all the rage that he knew exactly what he had and was going to sell it to Russia. We even had a liberal poster here pumping that very idea.
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Trump was going to sell it? Matter of fact, the same idiot said he sold things already.
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Doesn’t mention Russia but claimed Trump was going to sell them and has sold things in the past. Curious who this schmuck thought he was going to sell them too though. I’m sure he/she meant Russia.
Link: https://forum.uhnd.com/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=2&msgid=92766
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Embarrassment. Way too wrapped up in all things Trump.
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But I guess you know better.
You guys continue to look like fools and never learn. You are entertaining though. Sad and pathetic but entertaining.
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Ever happen to him so it’s not worth getting worked up over. But whatabout Hunter isn’t going to work here.
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A zero. Donut hole. Nada. Zip. Nil. Goose egg. A big fat jerk off.
The Orange one BREATHES again!!!
So stupid. Nuclear stuff indeed. He grabbed the wheel of the SUV! Complete with still photos.....embarrassing stuff.
Unless he wanted to provoke the raid.