Honest, Non-Inflammatory Question

Author: hipND (3792 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:37 am on Mar 16, 2019

I have ridden the Mike Brey roller coaster, like most of us over the past several years: I wanted him gone after years of missing the tourney or first round losses. Then there was the Cocoon moment with the back-to-back Elite Eights. I believe he actually was a (slightly) improved bench coach, but not much. Now we've come full circle. This year's team would not have won the Bookstore title. Seriously bad basketball, shooting, spacing, chemistry, hustle, toughness....nothing good, really bad.

Here's my question, and honestly, I have always loved ND basketball (59 yrs), but really don't delve too deeply into the inner workings [recruiting etc], but just tune in and watch (and judge):

Did Brey get lucky with Demetrius Jackson, Zac August, Pat Connaughton etc? Did they find ND more so than Brey found them? I just don't know.

Now, two years into a renewed oblivion, I am convinced ND needs new blood at the head coaching position. I guess we have new hoop facilities, so there's that. ND pays up for top notch everything else, how about revamping the hoops program?

I welcome some enlightenment from minds more knowledgeable than mine.

Peace.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Replies to: Honest, Non-Inflammatory Question


Thread Level: 2

This might be an unpopular opinion

Author: Nigel Tufnel (4287 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:51 am on Mar 18, 2019

...but I don't think it's possible to win without cheating, and I think that has a lot to do w/ our inability to land better players. College basketball has become like Lance Armstrong era cycling. The latest scandal underscores this. Case in point - Zion Williamson's dad asked Kansas for $100K, a 'job', and housing. Kansas was working to provide all that, and then Zion commits to Duke. If you don't think Duke gave him at least what he was going to get from Kansas, you are naive. UNC runs a fraudulent classroom scam for two decades, involving hundreds of student athletes, and receives no penalty. The LSU coach is taped saying he was going to make a 'strong ass' offer to a recruit, and he's publicly demanding to be reinstated (after refusing to answer questions from LSU!).

Assuming we are not willing to cheat - and I don't think we are - I don't know that we can realistically expect a lot more than Brey. He's a good representative of the university and is widely respected amongst coaches and the sports media. And yes, his teams are often soft and play poor defense and are typically out-rebounded.

I don't think ND really cares if it isn't competing for Final Fours. Brey was begging for a practice facility for the last 15 years before we acted.

He's a good coach, but I wish we had a better coach.


Thread Level: 3

The sport is filthy. The NCAA is a joke. ND can't achieve final fours in that framework.

Author: TakethetrainKnute (16737 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:46 pm on Mar 19, 2019

That said, I am finding Brey embarrassing of late.

He's not going anywhere right now but if he continues on this trajectory, while also looking like a slob, a change should be made...


Thread Level: 2

Bear Bryant went 12-10-1 in 1969 and 1970

Author: MarkHarman (2879 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:28 pm on Mar 17, 2019

Not comparing Brey to Bryant in championship regard, but my point is even good and great coaches have down times sometimes.

Having said that, something about Brey is missing. He does a great job of getting upperclassmen to improve and usually has his teams playing better than the sum of their parts, but if we use Villanova and Gonzaga as our models, Brey should have done better by now.


Thread Level: 2

idiotic post, Mike has our full support, great coach just a rebuilding year with injuries

Author: DonMiller (730 Posts - Joined: Dec 20, 2016)

Posted at 12:43 pm on Mar 16, 2019

(no message)

This message has been edited 3 time(s).

Thread Level: 3

Idiotic response. Brey’s appearance suggests he thinks he is a tenured professor.

Author: Aragoto (2288 Posts - Joined: May 14, 2018)

Posted at 10:07 am on Mar 17, 2019

He needs to finish with at least an NIT caliber team next year or the heat will be turned up. Deservedly so.

Thread Level: 4

Looking the fool while losing comically is a very bad optic...

Author: TakethetrainKnute (16737 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 8:45 am on Mar 18, 2019

(no message)

Thread Level: 3

Hyperbole. Mike Brey is a good coach.

Author: MAS (11419 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 1:56 pm on Mar 16, 2019

He is not a great coach. His teams are generally soft and they don't play good defense. I used to get frustrated when an ND player would fail to stop the ball or give a poor effort on defense, yet wouldn't get pulled. Good coaches do that. It simply isn't and won't be a priority with Brey. He's focused on offense and some of his worst defensive players have been some of his best offensive players, like Luke Harangody or post-injury Chris Thomas.

Defense and physicality aren't dependent upon getting great athletes. John MacLeod had far superior defensive teams than most of Brey's teams. To put it in perspective, 25 years ago, MacLeod had a walk-on from across the street at St. Joe's HS, Pete Miller, who often started and often matched up with the best opposing Big East players, like Ray Allen and Kerry Kittles. Walk-on Pete Miller, with all those physical limitations, was a far superior defender than anyone on the current squad. That's not a function of player talent or athleticism, it's about coaching and accountability on both ends of the floor.


Thread Level: 2

The stars aligned, most likely, those two years.

Author: MAS (11419 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:04 pm on Mar 16, 2019

Year-in-and-year-out, Brey will have an average-below average defensive team that isn't particularly physical. That isn't the profile of a program that makes deep runs.

On the flip side, he will graduate exemplary young men who reflect well on the university. It's become increasingly obvious that to win championships at the collegiate level, you must compromise those things. ND will not do that. I think Brey will be at ND until he retires.


Thread Level: 2

I would say....

Author: billybaroo (1179 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:10 am on Mar 16, 2019

Wait on the new recruiting class, if there is a new recruiting class. And, seeing how the freshman play as sophomores. That said, the talent level and physicality that separates ND and the top of the ACC is night and day. .500 next year in the ACC would be high expectations.

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Thread Level: 3

Re: I would say....

Author: garryowen (2162 Posts - Joined: Oct 22, 2007)

Posted at 6:10 pm on Mar 16, 2019

Let us hope they get better. But they need better coaching,, and they are not going to get it from this coach, with this staff.

Thread Level: 4

If ND was serious about basketball, Brey be gone now, after 19 seasons,

Author: cubsfanin16 (790 Posts - Joined: Aug 25, 2016)

Posted at 12:10 pm on Mar 17, 2019

and two elite eights as the apex, its time...and his appearance is only getting worse, and frankly , embarrassing..THat team this yr was one of worst Ive ever seen; they didn't look like they even had a coach..
Look at the job Jay Wright is doing at Villanova, another BE title, Mark Pew at Gonzaga..ND need a young, energetic coach determined to set the world on fire , theyre out there..
ND is mired in mediocrity; aspire to be anything less than great, and you'll remain mediocre forever..THis program will stay in mediocrity until he's removed..

I cringe when I read the NIT is next year's goal; way to shoot for the moon..Why not make the CBI the goal, then when a NIT bid is forthcoming, we can say Brey overachieved..


Thread Level: 5

Throw out some names.

Author: MAS (11419 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 1:17 pm on Mar 17, 2019

(no message)

Thread Level: 6

Re: Throw out some names.

Author: NDSoxfan (4302 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 6:29 pm on Mar 17, 2019

Did anybody ever hear of Digger before he got the ND job? Outside of New York City.

As someone here mentioned here the AD's job is to find a good, young, upcoming job. I'm sure there are some out there. MB has done all he can do at ND.


Thread Level: 6

I wish I was college basketball astute enough, but thats why the AD gets paid millions;

Author: cubsfanin16 (790 Posts - Joined: Aug 25, 2016)

Posted at 1:42 pm on Mar 17, 2019

But I see coaches all the time more impressive than Brey...For one, I like the job Kevin Willard is doing at Seton Hall..And if a young energized coach cant be lured to the DOME, Id be willing to take a chance on a young and upcoming asst making a name for himself, theyre out there too, in a pool of 300 plus teams..
Remember when Brian Kelly said his program was in need of a coat of fresh paint..NDs basketball program is in need of a sandpapering, the best primer you can buy, and 2 coats of fresh paint..


Thread Level: 7

Re: I wish I was college basketball astute enough, but thats why the AD gets paid millions;

Author: garryowen (2162 Posts - Joined: Oct 22, 2007)

Posted at 6:07 pm on Mar 17, 2019

Agreed. Let us not forget that the Irish job is also an A.C.C. Job.

Thread Level: 4

There is no where but up after this season

Author: billybaroo (1179 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 9:20 pm on Mar 16, 2019

(no message)

Thread Level: 5

Hopefully.

Author: garryowen (2162 Posts - Joined: Oct 22, 2007)

Posted at 6:02 pm on Mar 17, 2019

(no message)