" especially when you consider that a 4-8 season leaves these fans clinging ONLY to that argument as to how Notre Dame is special in today’s college football climate.
I came across a very interesting article from David M. Hale of ESPN.com the other day, in which he details how much Clemson, California, and USC (just as a few examples) are investing in career training programs to prepare their players for life after football.
Especially with Clemson and USC, you’re probably rolling your eyes. Those guys are a couple of the biggest football factories out there, right? They can’t offer the same types of things ND can offer aside from football, right?
Except if you look at the 2017 U.S. News and World Report rankings, you’ll see that Cal and USC land just 5 and 8 spots behind Notre Dame, respectively (and let’s be real, there’s not much difference between degrees from #s 15 and 20 and 23 in that list anyway). These are schools that absolutely offer world-class educations if the players want them, and clearly the football programs are beginning to funnel resources to providing their players with that sort of experience.
Clemson falls in at much worse 66th on the list, but pairing things like getting 7 players internships in Silicon Valley (referenced in the article) and beating Alabama in an unreal, dramatic national championship game will make up for that gap, without question. They’re clearly committed to the idea of preparing players for after football as well.
So, I think this ESPN article is just a really good reminder that Notre Dame football isn’t the only program that can offer these kids a sweet setup for life - and so it’s important Notre Dame remembers that and makes the right moves on the football side of things as well in order to keep up with the powerhouse programs who are suddenly setting their players up for life are
Link: https://www.onefootdown.com/2017/7/5/15919860/notre-dame-football-4-for-40-pitch-fighting-irish-special-clemson-tigers-dabo-swinney-usc-trojans
No one is arguing that you can not get a great education from another program. I live in Georgia, and I know many people who went to schools in the SEC and ACC. They received great educations that set them up for life, just like one from Notre Dame would. The "40 year decision" term I keep hearing, I have always taken as Notre Dame will make sure that you graduate in four years with a degree and network that will actually do you some good.
"If the players want them" refers to other schools who do put football first, will put you in a major that really does not mean anything as far as job prospects, and in some situations that I have read about the players go to school for 5 years without earning a degree. That won't happen to a player who goes to Notre Dame. That athlete will graduate. In that way, to me, it still does make Notre Dame special over some of the other schools out there.
Not only do they prepare students and athletes for today's economy but they also win football games.
Agreed they have had short term consistent results superior to ND.
I question if they have the gravitas to sustain that.
2 Reasons: Their tradition is still inferior. A grand total of one consensus NC in 1926, and that was shared.
They cannot draw the mega crowd (sell out with premium scalping occurring) unless they have an elite program coming in to The Farm.
It's been true since Harbaugh got it rolling---
Have won six of the last eight.
Hope ND can turn that around this year--but truth is truth.
They're better right now.
In the eyes of a 17 year old right now (someone born in 2000), Stanford's tradition is better than ND's. Because since 2000, Notre Dame has done nothing exceptional on the football field to make them do a double take. Stanford, on the other hand, has gotten better with each passing year since the turn of the century. Does anyone honestly think any recruit cares about 1988? Tim Brown? Rocket? Bettis? They don't have a clue who these guys are? It is ancient history to them. And in each passing year that ND is mediocre or overrated, the more the tradition fades in the autumn sun.
Notre Dame needs to win and win now. That is the only way you are going to consistently attract top HS talent. Stanford is winning. In the 7 seasons David Shaw has been at Stanford, they have had 10 or more wins in 6/7. He is 74-20. Winning pecentage of .787. That is 22 pts higher than Lou Holtz at ND. Shaw has had 3 top 10 finishes and 5 seasons in the top 12. Does anyone think Brian Kelly would have had that kind of success? No way. Even Harbaugh had Stanford at 12-1 in his 4th year there. And you are correct, Stanford has zero titles in 90 years. However, they are in the conversation at the end of each season because they rack up wins. Equanimeous St. Brown's middle brother selected Stanford, and judging by the looks of things, Amon-Ra is leaning toward them as well. Does anyone think either player cares about tradition? No, they care about success. The success of their own careers.
Notre Dame is focusing on all of the wrong things to attract elite talent. Kids want to be on a grand stage and be on a winner. Time to start winning Notre Dame.
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ND had 10 wins and a Fiesta bowl appearance when they were 15.
Yes, 4-8 was horrid, but ND has not always been mediocre during the lifetime of current recruits.
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...and magnitude of that loss showed the converse instead.
Coupled shortly thereafter by Golson shooting himself in the foot...
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fears an ND football team. It's the sad harsh truth.
Until they put together an impressive 10 year run. LIKE STANFORD has there is nothing that resonates with today's HS kids. You can't sell them on the fact that ND was a consistent NC competitor when their granddad played.
People want to be around winning programs and that means winning today and yesterday, not 25+ years ago.
Fact: Brian Kelly has been at ND 7 full seasons. Almost a decade. He's 59-31 and 3-3 in bowl games. That's and 8-4 season average. That's pretty poor. Especially when you consider the talent he's dwindled.
Respectfully, I disagree. ND has been NOTHING BUT mediocre in the lifetime of today's recruits as well as the lifetime of the recruits from the last decade.
Notre Dame is 129-83 (.608). only 4 seasons out of 17 with double digit victories. 7.58 wins per season against 4.88 losses per season. The numbers are obviously worse if you include the NCAA's vacating of wins in 2012. I did not include that since vacating wins is inherently silly.
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But in the last ten years they have kicked our ass.
That you don't have to go to a so called elite school to be successful in life?
That most folks making hiring decisions stop looking at what school you went to after about 5 years
That most people on this board didn't even go to Notre Dame yet rant on and on about what a great education it provides and how much better ND is than everyone else?
That most of those same people beg the administration to loosen up those tight restrictions, you know, so the football team can be better?
The irony here is just dripping.
The two (elite football and great academics) need to be present for it to be unique for the kid and his parents. There are numerous places one can receive a top quality education without the presence of elite football. If Notre Dame sacrifices either one for the betterment of the other, they forfeit any chance of calling themselves "special" in the recruiting world. It is a tough pill to swallow, however it is true nonetheless. Football needs to be fixed immediately. If not, we're no different than Northwestern or Vanderbilt.
There hasnt been anything elite about Notre Dame football for over 20 years?
Yet we consistently attract top 8-12 recruiting classes.
How could that be possible?
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1. That is very small sampling size 2. ND recruiting fell off significantly in that same period in comparison to years prior. 3. Even in that 20 year window you referenced, one would be hard pressed to say that recruiting was top-notch. Many over-rated classes/players.
My assertion is simple. For Notre Dame (a tiny, private, Catholic school with no regional fan base) to stand out among its competitors during recruiting, they need to create a marriage of sport and academics. To sell this product, in this period in time, ND needs to be unique. ND will not distinguish itself among elite talent if the football product is substandard and the academics/networking/alumni status, etc is superb. On the contrary, if the football team is superb and the academics (professional opportunities) are mediocre (like most of our competitors) our product is once again "not special" or "not unique." They do not need to be mutually exclusive and both need to be present and functioning at a high level.
Notre Dame is ranked the 15th best university in the world and the best Catholic University nationally. There is something to be said for this. If they can find a way to combine National Championship quality football to this, as done in the past, they will possess a truly special product to offer any young man and his family.
Furthermore, Father Riehle once purported, decades ago, that ND would not have been prestigious nor popular had it not been for "big time" football. Another tough pill to swallow for some, but true nonetheless The status Notre Dame has achieved today as an institution is only possible because of its football history. Without it, we're just another tiny Catholic school in the Midwestern U.S.
Finally, the more the football team plays average or shoddy football on an annual basis, the more the "4 for 40 campaign" appears artificial and phony. This sort of insidiousness will only hurt recruiting, not buttress it.
I agree with almost everything.
Many years ago football put ND on the map; make no doubt about it
The football team could go away now and it would still be highly prestigious and ahead of its peers. It does not need the football team anymore as evidenced by the last 20 years
The football time has done nothing to impress anyone in the last two decades yet it is one of the most prestigious schools in the country.
ND doesnt need the football team anymore and I will admit that is probably part of the problem
I agree. Notre Dame does not need the football team anymore and the university can stand on its own as an elite institution of higher learning from here on out. What irritates me is their facade of phony interest in football success combined with the indisputable initiative to money gouge all comers.They are in a distinct position in sports where they can simply ignore the product on the field and reap the financial reward of a powerhouse. What MLB/NFL/NHL/NBA owner would not give his or her first born to have that sort of playing field? In my opinion, it is just as unethical to dupe and exploit your fan-base/alumni-base than it is to practice unethical recruiting tactics or endorse academic fraud. Deception is deception and dishonesty is dishonesty. Notre Dame needs to stand for excellence in all endeavors. That is what makes Notre Dame special. A strive for excellence in all areas. Not a win at all costs mentality, but a commitment to being the best at what they do in all areas. What saddens me is it appears the PTB have forgotten or ignored that simple fact.
Except like most things in life the fan base can react with their pocketbooks and checkbooks. Simply don't buy tickets to the games. No one is forcing anyone to attend a Notre Dame football team. No one is putting blinders over our eyes and making us think it's a good team when it really isnt. Matter of fact in this day and age of internet blogs, websites dedicated to recruiting, and 24/7 sports networks the college football consumer is better informed than ever on what a product may or may not look like on the field
So I disagree with your assertion that the university is duping us. They raise prices due to supply and demand. Stop buying the tickets and the prices will come down. For whatever reason there continue to be idiots out there that want to pay $1000's to see a 4-8 football team. Clearly there is a certain allure to the brand; make no doubt about it. Perhaps it's a blind loyalty to a once proud brand that more recently has lost much of its luster. We recruit fairly well, the kids can get a great education for free, and we tend to play by the rules though recently we have had our fair share of off-field incidents though they clearly pale in comparison to some other schools. But an elite athlete has his sights set on the NFL, and likely wants to focus more on football than academics.
It's a lot like what is occurring in the NBA now. A handful of teams have the money to load up all-star teams and be legitimate contenders for the NBA title. We are not going to compete with Ohio State, Clemson and Alabama on an annual basis. Their 2nd teams are better than our starters. We are getting 3- and 4-stars, and they are getting primarily 4- and 5-stars.
Last game I attended at ND was in 2012. I see no purchases in the near future either. Too disgusted.
We need to accept the fact that a lot of schools are excellent, along with notre dame. Who wouldn't someone take a full ride to Stanford or USC, Miamii? If you think they are average your just plain ignorant.
Again,, notre dame is an excellent choice along with many schools.
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