No I'm not talking about 18 year old recruits, sorry if that's what you want. I deal in reality.
The other ND site is clearly opposed to Kelly and every action he takes is trashed which isn't fair. I believe he wants to win, why wouldn't he, but on that site those that support Kelly are shouted down or removed from posting. This board is more tolerant, there are some blatant homers who live in a land of make believe that after 8 years Kelly can still get the team to the promised land while clinging to the theory that it could be worse and for whatever reason cling to the position that ND can't get a better coach than Kelly. That in itself is self defeating. Much more believe, like me, the silent majority, that Kelly is a fraud, albeit an earnest one unlike Ty and Charlie, and are lying in wait for an "I told you so". In the meantime, they stay silent with the vocal homers cheering and making apologies and excuses for any bad news. Once in a while they enter the fray only to be shouted down as anti-ND, players, etc. What's more important, please tell me on this board who believes this team and program is close to winning a National Championship? I'm tried of reading that a 10 win season is great against a tough schedule. I know Kelly will never win a national championship at ND. Come forward those that support the present regime and tell me when ND wins one? Isn't that the goal or are you content with just having a good season, if so you have settled. Lou Holtz was run out of town after winning a national championship and playing at the highest level, Kelly are you serious?
and you are either on one or the other. There is a huge middle-ground where many, probably most, of us exist. We don't think Kelly has done well enough. We don't think he's elite. We were on board with it if he was terminated after going 4-8. We doubt he'll be able to win a NC. But we can still recognize that 10 wins against a tough schedule is a good season, . . a result few predicted going into 2017. We can criticize Kelly for his team's flop against Miami and late collapse against Stanford, and still recognize that the wins against MSU and USC and NC State and LSU were impressive. It's ultimately a disappointing season, because we all want a NC. But you can have a "good" season that doesn't result in a NC. Only one team wins it each year. You said it yourself, . . Lou won one. A great coach like Lou won one in his entire career. It's tough to win a NC. That's what makes Saban so amazing. Kelly isn't Saban. He isn't close. But few are close. Urban, when he's invested. Smart is maybe going to turn out to be Saban-like. Kelly won't. If Kelly wins a NC, and I think the chances are slight, it will be because a lot of things fall into place for the team. Like 2012. We all remember that ND got beaten up by Alabama. We tend to forget that if KSU hadn't choked against Baylor, ND probably wins the NC that season. So I'm not prepared to say Kelly couldn't possibly win a NC at ND. But I admit I think it is unlikely. Regarding "can't get a better coach:" Hopefully ND lands a great coach someday. I don't think it is impossible for ND to get one. But I don't think it is the case than ND could necessarily dump Kelly right now and replace him for 2018 with an elite coach. And I don't think it is necessarily productive to fire him and hire another non-elite coach. Saban isn't on ND's sidelines in '18 if ND cans Kelly. Urban isn't either. Firing Kelly and replacing him with . . . who? Propose something an I'll consider it.
Ohio State all have them. Even Ped State has 1. The only way to beat a team loaded with 5 stars is to have a QB difference maker. DeShaun Watson fit that bill last year and almost the year before. Notice how Clemson got beat fairly easily without him. Hell Alabama would not have won this year without the guy they put in and they had a shitload of 5 stars.
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And that player, obviously, was the quarterback.
I get tired of hearing "Kelly didn't put him in a position to succeed." What's that supposed to mean? A D-1 QB who can't hit the broadside of a barn from 10 yards away CAN'T be "put in a position to succeed." And coaching QBs isn't like only a select few coaches out there know the true "secrets" of coaching QBs. The principles are well known to all coaches.
If Kelly does have a major fault, it's in playing players who aren't as good as the players on the bench. Dexter Williams was by far more dynamic than Josh Adams, and yet he barely got any carries. I'm not saying Book would have been better than Wimbush, because Book, too many times, would make one horrible pass that derailed things. But maybe if he'd been the starter the whole year that wouldn't have happened. Who knows, so it's obviously a moot point.
If Wimbush gets rid of his obvious anxiety problem and learns to throw accurately, ND has a chance to be great next year. Either that, or one of the other three QBs needs to step up.
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Again stop making excuses, would a better QB have prevented the debacle in Miami?
by Wimbush and Book made a horrible throw, although if he had the whole game we definitely would have moved the ball better. Plus Alabama's second string QB saved their asses.
and he didn't get a chance to get into a rhythm with the offense.
“Good teams don’t depend on 1 player”
Tom Brady
Le Ron James
Can newton
Joe Montana
Deshaun Watson
Et al
U are an absolute insecure moron
Your mouth makes no sense
Tell us, Mr. ass Kicker, give us your accomplishments
Post a picture of your trophy case
The greatest, Vince Lombardi didn't use a special QB, he just used one that could listen.
execution--execution--execution
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A QB that allows for a two dimensional offense would have forced Miami to gameplan differently. As it stood, Miami knew ND was one dimensional and went hog wild trying to stop the run.
MarkHarmon is not wrong. This team was a good passing QB away from beating Georgia and Stanford.
On the other hand, though, it’s these types of things year after year that leads me to believe Kelly will never win it all.
Here is the deal. I definitely think BK can win a national title here if the recruiting gets some more talent. This is not to say that there is no talent, obviously there is, but we are not getting Alabama, Ohio State, FSU, Clemson or others type talent. We are getting solid talent and it takes great leadership from the QB position especially, to win the national championship, without top 4 or 5 talent for three or four years in a row. Remember Holtz had 4 or 5 consectutive rankings of 1 or 2 talent wise. It is true that it is better to have a good team of 11 than 11 good players, so maybe a little of that is on Kelly. As far as QB, Wimbush was obviously not there yet and maybe he won't be. Book seems to be more QB skilled than Wimbush but without the super arm or foot make you miss, which Wimbush has. So for Book to lead us to the promise land he has to play within the team and once in a while make a play to win a game by himself. He could be the man, too early to tell, Jurkovec could be the man or Wimbush may develop the QB skills to go along with his immense arm strength and great running ability.
ND's present level of talent, although solid, is not even in the same league as the other schools you mentioned. A difference maker at QB is the equalizer. I'll use Vince Young as an example of how a QB can basically single-handedly win a NC for school. Texas had a good team but they wouldn't have beat SC with Tommy Rees or Golson taking the snaps.
Book and Wimbush are not the answer. Hopefully, someone like Jurkovec can answer the call.
they can win without one that because their players at each position is "over the top." other than QB
Alabama would not have even been competitive in the 2nd half against Georgia had Hurts stayed in the game. Yes, the QB can make that much of the difference.
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I understand that part. My point is that ND needs an over the top QB in order to compete though.
I agree that Bama has so much talent they could win just smothering another team with their defense. ND is not built that way. They need the most important player on the field to be dynamic because they are not loaded top to bottom.
The team is in a major Transition...Have lost HH,Elko and possibly Long....the team fell off terribly beginning with Wake Forest game... just squeaked by Navy, Offense looked horrible against a LSU team that was missing 3 players on Defense and only a miracle catch and awful Coaching by LSU salvaged a win... factor in Wimbush is not the alpha male that is needed for QB...he has been a QB for the past 5 years... how much longer is it going to take to learn the requisite skills to be a QB? Wimbush does not see the field,bad timing on read option,too slow getting rid of the ball,does not go through his progressions,over throws and short arms receivers... you can not will something to happen just because you want it to happen...Why did HH leave if he loved working with the players and loved his job? Sanford,Elko left...kids are leaving early, others getting dismissed from the program, would not be surprised if Long left...
Gee officer Krupke you've done it again, Kelly don't need a Coaching job,he needs a year in the pen.. It's more than a question of misunderstood,deep down inside he's no good...
This is how it should be. As you point out, those at the "other board" are completely one-sided. I believe all of us here are prone to
the occasional "doomsday" opinion but, personally, I tire quickly of those for whom nothing is ever good enough for ND football
and complaining is a way of life--or so it seems. Will I tolerate it? Yes but I'll provide my own opinion along the way just so I won't go up on my roof and jump.
Drum roll please: If BK continues to make positive changes within the program----changes that impact both himself as well as the team (including weeding out those individuals who adversely affect overall team chemistry)---yes, I believe he will win a natty at ND. Make no mistake, he's running out of time as he quickly approaches being one of the longest tenured ND football coaches ever. Based on the decisions he has made (and I'm not gonna argue whether they were forced or of his own doing), if he can take a team from 4-8 one year to 10-3 the next, he's capable of going 12-2 or 13-1 and winning that natty. And YES every coach needs a little luck along the way.
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These types of responses are a waste of pixels and memory allocation.
You don't have to agree with everyone or disagree with everyone. You can have your own opinions or share opinions. Just be an adult about it please.
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For the record, I agree with you on a lot of things but the constant back and forth and dash of "comedy" is tiresome.
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And so the dorms sort of function like them. O'Neill is the Angry Mob. Zahm has its moose and its hatred of Keenan. Etc.
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You seem to like to argue, but as long as you aren't demeaning posters (again), we're all for open discussion.
Did you go to ND? just asking.
By the way, do you like moderating a board that is concerned with high school recruits? Just asking?
But now, my role is changed. We want discussion of all topics. We don't mind colorful language. We tolerate tastelessness (to a point). We do not, however, want to see personal insults and attacks -- when those occur, we typically will make a public appeal to decency, or shut down the thread, or even delete the offending posts. If behavior gets out of hand after these gentle warnings, then private e-mails from the moderators to the offenders are employed. Moderators have the power to suspend posters, but that is almost never done. In three years as a moderator I suspended one poster, once, for 24 hours, for repeatedly stalking another poster with offensive, personal insults (this was after three private e-mail requests/warnings). Other moderators have suspended others for longer terms.
Notre Dame football is about young men maturing as athletes and as men. I enjoy the discussions. This is easily the best board anywhere on ND football. The Open Forum also has excellent discussions about a host of topics. It has a tendency to be dominated by a few hard left/hard right posters, to the point where, I think, middle of the road opinions sometimes are not accepted. That's sort of a reflection of society at present.
But you didn't answer my question: When were you a student at ND, and which was your dorm? I have to think you were a StEd.
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get a basketball scholarship to ND and instead left Florida for Chaminade College in Honolulu, now Chaminade University. Our claim to fame is long after I was gone we beat #1 UVA and Ralph Samson, mostly because they were hungover. You mentioned I'm argumentative, well your job would be so much easier if this board, like the nation, moved in lock step. Embrace Kelly and mediocrity, until it becomes obvious you are wrong.
I didn't answer your questions concerning my former identity.
The nation has moved south, where football is everything (except of course for NASCAR). Meanwhile, there are so many media outlets that all teams in all parts of the country have a ton of exposure. ND's previous advantages have been surpassed... until 18 year old 5 stars base their college choices on what will best serve them over a lifetime. Of course, I'm an actual alum and I value my school's overall reputation over its success in football... and I care more about how our athletes turn out in life than how they perform on the field.
This reminds me of the tough talking Nebraska AD Steve Pederson, when he fired Frank Solich for going 58-19 at Nebraska.
"I refuse to let the program gravitate into mediocrity. We won't surrender the Big 12 to Oklahoma and Texas. The byproduct of excellence in every area of your program is winning, and I don't apologize for having high expectations."
How'd that work out for the Huskers? As for that ass clown Pederson, he was fired five years later.
Kelly may not be the guy, but presumably you know who is. Do tell.
You have settled, have fun being almost good enough
It sounds great, just like Pederson, to puff out your chest and talk tough about not settling for anything less than a national title.
So who are you going to hire? And if your answer is any of Saban, Meyer or Swinney, then don't bother, because you're delusional.
Again, who are you going to hire?
Problem is that won't happen. So you have a choice to be a fan of a school that once was glorious and imagined more championships when you know now that the infrastructure in place won't support that effort. It's honorable but delusional. It's not money my friend it's desire, the school dosen't want to go back there.
Like I said, it's easy to talk tough and bitch about Kelly, a bit tougher to find the next magic coach.
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more than everybody else? Does that mean taking marginal students who may not be able to pass the college classes? Does that mean dumping the idea of a "student athlete" and just making up classes and grades to keep players eligible? If you aren't willing to bend the rules to make it as easy to bring in any player as other colleges may do, why do you think every coach would want to be at ND when success may come easier elsewhere? Do you believe everyone has their price and even though winning may be tougher at ND than somewhere else that they won't care as long as you throw enough money at them? Who would you bring in?
p.s. I believe in Kelly and am glad we have him!
That schools take athletes and use them to generate money for the school and they are indifferent to their future beyond how many seats they can put into the stadiums. So many schools have decided they won't play that game, but they are marginalized. They will refuse athletes because they received poor secondary educations. I remember in the 80's ND made a point of taking some of those athletes who turned out to be outstanding citizens. So why not make a difference. Become the school that changes the dynamic. Spend the money to hire the best coaches, create a program dedicated to the athletes who may be marginally educated but determined to succeed. Prove to the world that you can win the right way. Instead, ND is not the leader, they don't want to change the narrative. So every year now we all bitch that the winners cheat and we could be as good but.
are risking their health and welfare to obtain.
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now aTm are committed to winning. Like crazy committed.
The current reality is that those are real football schools first, football is so tied to the school's revenue that it makes good business sense to go in that direction. They rationalize it by saying that the revenue helps them buy an academic reputation.
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look like:
Build a new Football facility so that the Football would move out of the Gug.
New indoor practice facility.
Player dorms that look like condos
a fleet of private jets to take coaches recruiting to overcome the local talent pools of other schools
larger salary pool for coaches and staff
It looks crazy
excellence? Is it one of the other? Few would doubt that football put ND on the map, yet the school seems to say as long as they can put a somewhat competitive program on the field that returns profits that's the goal. Any more than that would compromise the schools integrity as an academic institution. So a high standard with no controversy is fine, doing what it takes to be a championship team is no longer relevant? So when some rail against Jack or Kelly, it's a waste of time, they are doing what's asked?
them?
I believe, if a school that came to prominence because of football can spend whatever it takes to take high achieving athletes and the best coaches money can buy and turn them into great football players and citizen's. But it seems everyone including many board members and the administration has decided that is no longer possible. I believe it is still possible with commitment. If you spend the money they will come. The school makes plenty of money on football, imgaine what they could accomplish by running the most expensive program that represents all the best of the so called student athlete.
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