Buster went off at a 42-1 underdog. I watched that fight in ‘90 and thought like everyone else Tyson would knock him out in the first round. People where so sure Tyson would win that they put up $160k to win $4k. Buster was determined to win for his just passed mother, disrespect and pride. He came in and pounded Tyson. Even during the fight the announcers kept saying it was only a matter of time before he got laid out. While Tyson dropped him in the 9th round he got up and knocked Tyson out in the 10th. I see similarities with ND. With the exception of us Domers few believe ND will win.
Kelly should show that episode to his team. No one expects ND to beat Clemson let alone Bama. Anyone can be beat with a team effort and good coaching. Let’s see what this team and coaching staff are made of.
Way different. Large majority of ND fans will not be shocked when ND wins. I think they can win by as many as 10, maybe more: though on big stage, maybe it gets tighter. 2 TOs by their QB, and a complete offensive performance in both halves for the Irish. From my lips to God’s ears! ND 34 - Clemson 24.
The plan was cover defensively and let Iron Mike get arm weary. Douglas used his reach to jab Tyson coming in, then clinched with him before Mike could do damage inside. Never back up, because that was when Tyson would throw his devastating uppercut.
It worked, even when Douglas got too confident in round 9. Also, thanks to Douglas getting in shape for the fight while Tyson trained with Japanese dancers.
Douglas had a substantial height and reach advantage...His jab pounded Tyson right away.....It was a good match up for Douglas...Tyson stood in front of Douglas and Douglas took advantage of this..Notre Dame matches up with Clemson with tall receivers Mack, Claypool,Boykins.... Blitz package against Clemson....Hit Lawrence and he will fold... Irish will shut down Lawrence with their front four...
factor, he wasn't afraid of him. I saw guys get in the ring with Tyson and they knew they would get killed. Either Buster knew he could win or his emotions with the loss of this mother turned him into a beast. Let's hope ND comes out that way.
Frazier like determination with more power in his right and at least equal power in his left, he also moved well. His downfall came with his marriage to Robin Givens(admittedly a hot bitch) and the firing of Kevin Rooney who trained him when he was extremely hungry. But remember when he knocked Douglas down in the 9th round? That count should have gone to 10 and was poorly done by the referee, so there was a little luck involved. That fight was great to watch last night even when you knew the result.
And was waiting until the last moment to get up. If it had gone quicker, the only thing is Tyson would have had maybe a couple of seconds at the end of the round to finish the deal.
He put in the road work... Lombardi said "Fatigue makes cowards of us all"... Douglas was in great shape...Is the Irish D line ready to wreak havoc all 4 quarters?
The fatigue quote is from General Patton...
Good point...Fear paralyzes.... Douglas carried a sense of I'm going to whip this bully's ass....That 12 inch reach advantage and Douglas had Tyson standing in front of him... Tyson had to punch up and Douglas had much better wheels than Tyson... Douglas had the goods, just needed management, training to improve... Irish need to come out fierce... not playing soft like against USC...DL can not rush 3 like Georgia against Alabama..... South Carolina threw for 510 against Clemson..Hit Lawrence is the key...flare passes out of the backfield..roll out Book..
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Yes sir....and no soft coverage...make Clemson play from behind...Book is mobile... Double tight end and quick slant...no long developing plays...
He fought Tyson on the one time out of fifty he’d win. Then He lost the title in his next fight and never did anything again . . . except become a massively overweight novelty. Not sure that is the message Kelly should be giving his team. I think ND is better than that. I think ND’s players think they are better than that.
His list of victories is pretty pathetic, relative to the hype. Repeatedly gave up when in the ring with superior fighters. People who don't much think he's the greatest.
was one of the most underrated fighters of all time. Holmes at the best jab and timing of anyone. He also hammered Michael Spinks, manhandled Trevor Berbick, and downright killed almost anyone else who he fought. For the 3 or 4 years he was at the top he would have beaten anyone in my opinion.
Nobody thinks Tyson was “the greatest.”
Link: https://www.ringtv.com/488242-ring-greatest-heavyweight-time/
Tyson is rated above the guy who beat him twice? He's rated higher than Sonny Liston? Above Lennox Lewis?
Thanks for illustrating the idiocy surrounding this completely overrated athlete. And these are "experts?" I'm chuckling.
judges gave him including against Ken Norton twice and Jimmy Young once. Ali was a great actor in the ring when he was hurt trying to act like he wasn't, especially one time against light heavyweight Bob Foster who rocked him several times. He even faked he wasn't hurt by Joe Frazier in the first fight when Frazier clearly had him out on his feet in round 11.
IMO Joe Louis was the best of all time heavyweight.
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Interesting story.
Buster won six fights in a row coming into the Tyson fight. Had a bad rap since he supposedly quit for the title fight with Tucker. The real reason was his relationship with his father. So if you want a stretch comparison, Kelly couldn't get the best out of his talent until he changed (Kelly 2.0). Buster always had the talent but was poorly trained by his father and failed. ND has had the talent but was poorly trained by Kelly on the biggest stage. So my parallel says, like Buster based on passed performance everyone expected him to lose and the same for ND, just like Buster. He proved the world wrong. Let see if Kelly and the players will do the same.
Buster was a middling fighter who nobody today would even remember if he hadn’t “shocked the world” as a huge underdog against Tyson. He won some fights before the Tyson fight? Big deal. He was not a great fighter. There is a reason he was a 42-1 dog for the Tyson fight, and a reason he tanked after it. I don’t question that he trained hard and was inspired for the fight. But you have to acknowledge that part of the result was Tyson not taking Buster seriously as an opponent. Buster Douglas should NOT be the model for this ND team. Kelly would be an idiot to frame this as ND/Buster v Clemson/Tyson. That message says “they are better than you, but if you really try hard and believe you can shock the world.” Screw that. The message needs to be “they aren’t better than you, and it won’t be a miracle when you win.” I mean, what do you tell your players after they beat Clemson if you use Buster as your template? “Okay, Busters, you did it! Now let’s get ready for Holyfield/Bama.”
ND earned its way into this playoff. Playing into the narrative that they are outclassed by the likes of Clemson, but could win a “David v Goliath” victory is the exact wrong way to go. Buster Douglas’s surprising and inspirational win over Tyson makes for a great story. But if Kelly plans to use it as motivation for this team, then I hope Clark Lea kicks his ass and stops him. The 2018 Irish ain’t no Busters.
No one else did. That’s the message. Kelly and players know they can beat Clemson and Bama no one else does. That’s the message. It wasn’t a punchers chance. Those around him knew he could win. So if ND gets ahead, just like Danny Sheridan kept saying during the fight that he was still going to lose just like they will keep saying during the ND games. That’s the comparison.
Buster’s career went nowhere after that one fight — what most still call the greatest upset in boxing history. He immediately got embarrassed by Holyfield. If Clemson is Tyson in this scenario, I guess that makes Bama Holyfield. “Moment of Truth.” If that is Kelly’s model going into the Clemson game, he should be fired. ND is not David to Clemson’s Goliath. Not Buster to Clemson’s Tyson. That sentiment is bs. Telling this ND team that they could “pull out a miracle win like Buster Douglas did that one time” is the exact wrong message. If you don’t see it, I don’t know what to tell you.
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How am I not being reasonable? You are pitching the motivation of “one of the greatest upsets in sports history” going into the Clemson game. I think it’s a bad idea. I just saw on another board that FEI projects ND losing by 4. S&P has Clemson by 8. Yeah, ND is the underdog. But hardly a Douglas/Tyson level underdog. Oklahoma is a bigger point spread dog in round one than ND. Is it unreasonable for me to think framing this as David v Goliath story is the wrong approach for this team? I’m not going to stoop to name calling, but it is kind of rich for you to call me a “blockhead,” then claim I’m the one who cannot be reasonable. You saw “30 for 30” and you tried to connect it to this year’s ND team. You are free to do that. But I’m not going to apologize for seeing this differently. I’m not trying to be a dick. I just honestly think the worst thing Kelly could do would be to play into the narrative that it’d be a Douglas/Tyson type miracle for this team to win.
Questions for you:
1) Few believe that ND will win in the playoffs just like few believed that Buster would beat Tyson, correct?
2) This perception was based on prior knowledge, ND has a record of failure in big games and playoffs since their last championship in '88, so did Buster, correct?
3) The current coaching staff and players at ND believe they have turned the corner, juts like Buster and his staff believe they did, correct?
Hopefully you agree with those statements, if not, don't bother reading the rest, however.
My example or comparison related to those questions above. As I said, it's not a punchers choice since both believe they are better than people believe. But both have to prove it because the betting public with ND at an 11.5 underdog and Buster at 42-1 are not buying it. You can say that Buster's upset was bigger and that ND beating Clemson would be less of an upset, fine. Tell that to America. You might not like the fact, but most people would bet on UGA and or tOSU teams beating ND. I hate it but it's the reality until proven otherwise. Let's hope they do win and change that perception.
And I get the visceral appeal of it as a motivational story. I just disagree with you about the wisdom of Kelly actually holding up Buster Douglas as motivation. I think it is the wrong approach. Not because ND isn’t an underdog, . . . it is. And not because the public doesn’t think ND is a long shot, they do. I think it’s a mistake because Buster’s upset win over Tyson is widely considered to be something of a miracle. And because Douglas flopped after that big upset, making it look like it was just a fluke. I think using Buster as motivation sends the message that, like Buster, ND is outclassed by the likes of Clemson, and therefore needs a “Tokyo miracle” like Buster to win. Kelly should be countering the narrative that ND is outclassed by the likes of Clemson, not embracing it. There also is the sticky matter of touting Douglas as you approach Clemson, and then having to play ‘Bama if/when you win. How do “turn off” the Buster story at that point . . . or do you just ignore that Buster shit the bed after his big win? It’s problematic, to say the least. You want to hold up Buster as an example for ND. I get it. But I think that is selling ND short, and is sending the wrong message. So I get your point about ND being an underdog, and Buster being the ultimate underdog story. Maybe you can see my points too. Either way, I don’t mean to insult or anything. And I did enjoy the “30 for 30.” Those are hit and miss for me, but that was a good one. Go Irish.
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It was less about the fight than about following Douglas around for a backstory. Honestly, the way they have to make so many episodes has severely reduced the quality of the series. They have resorted to making up stories that are not even there with some of them (Trojan War was just stupid). Every season starts out strong, then ends with crap.
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Everything they put in that episode was true. It was a legendary fight. Buster Douglas was seen as a quitter who had no chance. Tyson's trainer was a clown who didn't know what to do. Buster rallied around the death of his mother and finally showed the true grit everyone had said he always possessed.