ND has made three good hires in the past 60 years. Three. In that time, they hired a high school coach who was the worst hire and most incompetent coach in the history of major college football. They hired another guy without vetting his resume. They hired a guy who had never been a head coach at the college or pro level. They hired a guy who tried to undercut the previous coach, his boss, who then proceeded to disgrace the University and now disgraces another university.
There is little to reason they will do a good job hiring anyone, besides the fact that it's not 1978 anymore and the ND job is long removed from being the dream job for most coaches.
Now, proceed with your ridiculous, pipe dream lists of possible replacements, along with your P.J. Fleck moronic choices.
People said the same exact thing about them fifteen years ago in the way they are now, about how irreverent they were.
I've always said it would take 2-3 years to see if this new Kelly would be successful. So far so good. Just need to keep building. Can he do that?
would be Neal Brown of Troy and Brian Harsin of Boise State. The former is well respected and could recruit well in the SE. The latter has proven he can win with the sort of 3 and 4 store talent ND tends to get.
Other coaches on my list:
- Mark Stoops of Kentucky - winning at KY is never easy and he's been able to recruit the SE and into Cincinnati
- Troy Calhoun - would understand the academic challenges of winning at ND, runs an offense I think could work at ND (sort of a passing triple option game) and has connections to the NFL, so he should be able to pull in some quality assistants.
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and go 8-4 in a good year
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The key is identifying the next urban/Dabo guy.
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I think a couple of your characterizations are off, but your point is well taken.
Unless Kelly heads to the NFL, I think he'll be around for a few more years. As we ND fans know all too well, things can always get much worse. I wish I had more confidence that he could get us over the hump, but there is no question that the ND football program is in the best shape its been since Holtz left.
He was beyond abysmal and he did not honor the university or himself with his antics.
School coach
He was a goofball but he was sincere.
He was not equipped for the job and ND was trying to literally create a new Rockne legend in the 1980’s.
It was utterly absurd.
It’s a miracle they hired Holtz given the stupidity of what followed
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Faust was everything we wanted in a coach, except a winner. Maybe only Holtz loved ND more than Faust. After his firing, he continued to praise ND, to this day. Nothing revisionist about that.
Never fails. Read what players and assistant coaches said about Faust. Talking Irish is an excellent source to begin your education.
Holtz never would and never did place a priest or his bosses in that position. Contrast how he handled the end of his tenure with how Faust handled it. Holtz never threw his players or assistants under the bus. Those things did not bring honor to the University nor himself. And, by the way, coming out in 1981 with some Mickey Mouse, high school offense he brought from Moeller rather than taking the time to learn something about the college game didn't show humility nor did it honor what ND was giving him.
There are oodles guys who love rah-rah BS and mistake it for actual enthusiasm and devotion to ND. Faust has always been a tremendous self-promoter. That's how he got a job he never should've gotten. He continued to look out for himself throughout his time at ND. That isn't honorable and that doesn't show devotion to ND, but cling to the fairy tale spun by him.
What you’re on about here exactly or why.
He’s the Forrest Gump of coaches (without the success) but it was ND’s fault. I know more behind the scenes stories of the man than you will ever know.
I'm not particularly interested in secondhand stories of acts of kindness. There are many such stories about Ty and probably even Davie and I know how many of you folks will disregard those, perhaps justifiably, about the former.
Not sure why you think I’m contradicting you What stories do you want to impart?
He never should have been picked. ND had so much hubris they thought they could create a legend out of a HS football coach. It was moronic on their part
He was not equipped for the job at all. That was the school’s fault.
He did a lot of dopey things. He is not a particularly smart man.
A poster above mentioned that he disagreed with my characterizations. As is usually the case when the subject of Faust comes up, folks who know nothing about him but the public image he projects assume he was a bumbling-but-meant-well figure. Testimony from players and coaches suggest otherwise. I don't know how many times or how many ways I need to restate this. As is true in sports, with celebrities, in politics, in war, many times people will prefer a fairy tale to the truth.
My characterizations are accurate.
Not sure how you think you’re educating me or why, but you’re not.
I haven’t substantially disagreed with you by the way, but you seem to have a desire to be strident nonetheless.
I've been, dare I say, "restrained" here. Just a quick refresher: you're the one who declared in this conversation between us that the other person didn't know things about the man. You'll recall that I acknowledged that I'm sure you have secondhand accounts about him that were positive. Perhaps even firsthand. I simply wasn't interested in those anecdotes and rely on the anecdotes, in print, from players and coaches. I'm sure you're aware of those very same accounts.
Not sure how this turned into a referendum on Faust, because I agree with your original post.
Faust was the head coach during my days at ND. I have too many positive anecdotes from those days to speak ill of the man.
He should never have been hired, but that’s not his fault.
But hate on if you must.
I instantly surmised it must be yet another revisionist on Faust, as it always goes.
I didn't fault him for allowing himself to be hired. As you read, or perhaps did not read, I faulted him for how he conducted himself on and off the field during his tenure. Again, believe the fairy tale spun by him if you wish. You may also want to avoid the rather dull and transparent tactic of characterizing someone's criticism of someone as "hate."
"...worst hire and most incompetent coach in the history of college football." A bit of hyperbole????? There have been a ton of worse coaches. My alma mater (CMU) just fired one.
players to sail Hail Mary's? Did he cry to the AD, begging a priest not to fire him after throwing his assistants and players under the bus many times? I could go on.
There's never been as a bad a hire, as ridiculous a hire. No major college program will ever hire a high school coach again to lead a team.
No, but he was 1-11 this year and a losing record in his 4 yrs. Only win was barely beating a FCS school.
...he stay of his own volition giving what he is doing to his own brand by getting to the big stage and failing miserably?
I ask this in all sincerity.
I have a feeling he will not be here that much longer and the University should try to be prepared and not wander back into the moronic flailing that has happened so often in the recent past, as your list demonstrates.
He's clearly more careful than most estimated. We probably know 1/10th of the total number of times college programs or NFL teams have sent out feelers to him.
Not running a football factory in which academics are a non-factor beyond being eligible is a double-edged sword. Yes, it means you will hardly ever compete for a national championship, but it also means a whole lot less management of miscreant behavior. My sense from multiple comments from multiple coaches is that one of the attractions of the NFL is that you're coaching alleged adults who are responsible for their own behavior and thus you, as the coach, are doing less babysitting, or at least you are not expected to do such hand-holding. It doesn't surprise me that coaches like Shaw, Fitzgerald, Kelly, Cutcliffe have had long stays and have undoubtedly all spurned offers of more money and more recruiting freedom to stay where they are.
Leaving now would be the proper time for him leave. He can claim he 'turned the program around', a couple 12-0 seasons, etc.Conveniently ignoring his coaching deficiencies, Declan, embarrassing losses, and vacated wins.
ND fans may be delusional, but the AD and Trustees are not.
May be he'll be foolish and take an NFL job and end up like most of them: out of work in a few years, having to take the equivalent of the Cincy job again to be a head coach again.
It stinks to get to this point and again be confronted with the fact that ND simply doesn't have the horses to play with the top five or six teams in the country. People can blame that on Kelly, but he's clearly upgraded talent to a level, across the board, that hasn't been seen here since the early 90s. Still, unless they start cheating and/or start admitting dum-dums, they ain't gonna reach the mountaintop on anything but a once-a-decade/couple decades basis. That's why top-name coaches don't come to South Bend.
Whether he can stay is a different question. I don’t think he will.
As I've said before aren't we Catholics supposed to help and nurture and not thumb our noses at the less fortunate? Is a quarter pt drop in player graduation rate that big of a deal? Will the university cease functioning? Will the prestige of the school be done irreparable harm? If you think that you're a moron. If you want everything to stay the same, then ND will forever be an also ran and never win a NC again. If that's what you want quit your bitching, go to your safe space and fuck off.
There are a lot of less fortunate kids who aren't idiots or criminals/budding criminals. Of course ND should help them, but the University isn't a reform school. And don't be a disingenuous: the reason you want standards lowered is so that you can get your football wins, not because you want to help the less fortunate.
You can't be among these top teams without making significant compromises to your school's academic integrity and moral integrity. You understand this full well, whether you've been willing to acknowledge it up to this point. So which is it: would you trade academic and moral integrity for national championships, or not?
I have no problem with the school taking a chance on a kid that may be borderline academic but is a nice kid and a great football player. Spare me the moral and academic integrity argument. This school would be nowhere near its current reputation without football. If you don't admit that you should be embarrassed with your stupidity. Need to remember who brought you to the dance. So you're telling me that every kid that plays basketball for Duke is a Rhodes scholar I think not. Has that hurt their academic and moral integrity. Last I checked Duke was one of the hardest schools in the country to get into I don't think they are hurt by doing this. The moral and academic integrity argument goes out the window with the billions they make off of these kids. I don't see them not cashing the checks . If we have to take a chance on a few flyers so be it. that's what I'm willing to do. If you want to be and also ran the rest of your life then keep the status quo and shut up.
No, Duke basketball does not recruit Rhodes Scholars. Yes, they have made compromises that dishonor the school. Yes, others have written about this before. No, ND should not go down that road so that chucklehead fans can get the national championship to which they think they're entitled.
You miss my point...again. in no way am I advocating gangbangers like the 1980s Miami teams. HOw old are 90? You just don't get it pal. Burying your head in the sand behind some false belief that ND is morally and academically superior to all other schools is foolish. I'm done arguing.
If you think ND is no better than football factory schools, you should find another program for which to root. Little wonder you would be fine lowering standards to win football games.
Hey: "Wich weigh to da wait woom?"
You sound racist too. So how old are you? Isn't today the day you and the wife take the Packard out for a drive? Sorry you're stupid and can't accept fact that teams need to adapt or forever be left in the dust. Now stop posting your holier than thou attitude BS. You keep missing my point. Are you a woman! No use arguing with you.
The choice is simple:
1. Lower standards and admit more athletes to the University who have no business being there based upon their academic performance.
2. Maintain standards and accept that ND will rarely compete for national championships.
You're ignorant if you think ND is comparable to Alabama or Clemson at this time in terms of admission standards for recruits.
Are you keeping up?
Never once did I say admit idiots. Reread what I said. So you want to be an also ran... fine. You are taking everything to the extreme. Why bother building that 400 million dollar stadium for mediocre teams? Since you didn't answer any my questions I assume you're an older fellow who just lives in the past so be it and be a loser.
I am from New York and you just sidelined MAS...Lol....that epic failure by another Kelly led team has kicked up some dust....as if Love missing playing time caused the usual offensive conundrum...
Sick of losing. You know what it's like watching 4 SB losses in a row ? Throw in a Stanley Cup for good measure and that adds insult to injury. I just want ND to get to the level of perennial contender. Mas just doesn't seem to comprehend what I'm saying.
I hear you.... Worst offensive performance in a bowl game this year.. Wait until Kelly/Long go up against Kirby Smart... yikes...