Who would be in your all-time ND backfield? One quarterback, two running backs based solely on their college playing days and not NFL career.
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they didn't have an O-Line. It's hard to perform when you're constantly on your back.
Non Heisman winners need not apply.
Each player should be judged against the era he played, the competition he played against, and what he accomplished.
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Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_football_statistical_leaders
On every single snap he took at QB, he was an unstoppable force.
Link: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2013/4/20/4246466/notre-dame-football-spring-game-2013
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He also wasn't much of a student, which doesn't fit in at ND, but certainly does in today's SEC....
But I agree with your selections.
You have to place this mythical backfield in some era. Only the current era makes sense.
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His force of will made his whole team better. He may be the only QB to win both a NC and super bowls. I'd vote for him over any other QB, ND or otherwise.
combination of Watters, Rocket(when he was positioned there), Culver and the Brooks brothers. Later on Denson was great. As for fullback, Bettis was superb and don't forget Larry Conjar, and Mark Edwards. The most impressive run by a fullback though was the one made by Ray Zellers against Purdue in I believe the 1993 year.
Others have been a part of both. Tom Brady was a backup at Michigan in '97. Troy Aikman was with Oklahoma in 1985 but was injured early and missed most of the season. Cam Newton almost became the third, but he is still the only one to win the Heisman, start on a national championship team, and start in the Super Bowl.
As far as Montana being the best. If that's your opinion, that's fine. I would still take Johnny Lujack as the best ever. I would even take Joe Theismann second. I could see an argument for Montana to be next.
Joe N. was one of the most over rated players of all time. Threw about 40 more interceptions than touchdown passes in the NFL. No way he should be in HOF.
field and he was deadly accurate with the long ball like no one since. QBs stats were skewed poorly then. The stats from QBs today are skewed so positively that they all look decent. His drop back style was the best of any drop back QB of the time and that was the system then. If you watch film of him, despite his knees, he set up quicker and smoother of any QB ever. He was the one back then they all wanted to emulate.
In the NFL of course he became great but don't forget that he had 2 full years under Bill Walsh tutelage before he really started to shine. Tom Brady is another example of a guy who became a goat in the NFL after a rather ordinary prospects heading into the NFL.
I may be a bit biased because I was acquainted with Montana when I was at ND. I was stunned, as were many people, when he turned to be the NFL stud that he became. But folks "get" what they can be at many different stages in their lives. From my perspective, he certainly wasn't "getting it" at ND.
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Probably because Clements worked hard at his craft and was a leader on his team and Montana didn't/wasn't.
From Notre Dame in Football and North Carolina in basketball his Senior year. Not many people can make those claims.
college.
From a pure QB perspective, I’d have to go with Theismann (in college).
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I'm not trying to get contentious with you. I'd really like to know how old you are and how far back you go with ND football. My guess is that you didn't watch Theismann play. At least, in college that is. If you did, let me know.
The truth is, he was a much more athletic qb than Montana. In fact, there would be only a few qbs at ND in the discussion of being more athletic. Theismann was faster and more agile, so, a better runner. He had a much stronger arm than Joe Montana did. Before Theismann became the full time qb with the Redskins, he was their punt returner. That's indicative of how atheletic he was.
Montana had the ability to move around on the field pretty well. Heck, I even remember him being a pretty good basketball player, but he was NOT as athletic as Theismann was on the field.
Montana could also run pretty darn well. Maybe I’m selling Theismann short, but Montana was very athletic. Let’s just say that I am old enough to have seen Theismann play, but not old enough to remember details of how athletic he looked. I clearly remember watching Montana though.
I'm not arguing that Montana didn't have a good amount of athleticism. I acknowledged that he was a pretty good bball player. He didn't run much on the field but he had good mobility and could buy time while receivers worked to get open. His iconic pass to Dwight Clark in '81 playoff game was a perfect example. So, I know it seems like I'm putting him down, but I loved watching him play. He is one of my all time favorites as well.
Joe Theismann was simply a step above. His arm strength was way above average. He was fast and could scramble. He actually ran quite a bit while with the Irish. Some remember him with the Redskins only sitting in the pocket and throwing downfield, but that was their system.
BTW, being able to dunk when you're 6"2 is not overly spectacular. I could dunk when I was in college and I'm not quite as tall as he.
Love the discussion
it was more rare in the 1970s to see many 6’2” guys dunking than it is today. Not to say that it didn’t happen, but kids back then didn’t typically train in a way that focused on verticals. If you were doing it back then, more than likely you just had natural abilities.
I would agree with that. Maybe even Quinn ahead of Montana today. That being said I think Montana's intangibles were off the charts. I think he even made the D play better.