I had been a regular poster at NDN for more than a decade. I finally gave it up after yet another rude, crude, ad hominem attack on someone who had the gall to praise Brian Kelly. The embarrassingly profane response was not only allowed but celebrated. That's no way to represent or support Our Lady's University. So I have left NDN and plopped down my online tent here at UHND.
It seems there is an equal and opposite reaction among some posters here at UHND. Perhaps they too have been turned off by the National-Championship-caliber-or-bust insistence at NDN so they lump any BK critic into the "haters" category in a dismissive way.
Can't this forum be the place for a reasonable middle ground?
I don't like BK's personality -- I think he turns people off, drifts into arrogance, and has had many sideline displays that do not befit the public face of ND football -- and that's before you even consider Lizzy Seeburg and Declan Sullivan. Granted, most of those problems are now a few years in the past. I give him credit for (1) building up the program after the Davie/Willingham/Weis decline and (2) turning things around after the 4-8 debacle, though it seems Jack Swarbrick has intimated publicly that he was behind the remaking of the staff that brought in Chip Long and Mike Elko/Clark Lea, so one can wonder aloud how much of the credit Kelly deserves. Either way, he has accepted the change of staff and made the most of it. If this year's team can win out, whether or not there's a return trip to the CFP, Long and Lea figure to be in line for head coaching jobs sooner rather than later.
In this forum, the posts I appreciate fall into two categories: humorous quips and reasoned analysis. I try to make my posts one or the other; whether they succeed is fair game for all of you to judge. But when I offer evidence and try to draw a conclusion, I think it sucks when someone replies with a bald assertion that offers no evidence. Just a pet peeve, I guess.
In any case, wouldn't it be great to have a consensus that reasoned support or criticism of the coach and his staff are largely what a forum like this is for? I'll stop before I start sounding like Rodney King...
(no message)
(no message)
some of his earlier decisions. There were inexplicable in-game choices and The VanGorder Shitshow derailed Kelly's most talented team and delayed the program's success by ~3yrs.
Kelly - to his credit - made changes when his boss demanded, embraced them and has thrived ever since.
(no message)
least most of them, remained silent. BTW Armstrong required a surgical procedure both times he was injured.
The actual pussy has not published a written apology.
(no message)
I call bullshit. You read the site all the time and know exactly what he said.
(no message)
(no message)
(no message)
So many folks on or from that board love to hear themselves talk. Methinks your apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree.
(no message)
Pardon me for being skeptical, but I looked at your profile. Your “favorite ND moment” is “Kevin McDougall TD run v USC.” Seems like maybe you aren’t on the up-and-up.
searched for a clip on youtube .. couldn't find it.
Again, I'm sincerely looking for a forum where people don't just pick at each other or blast out preconceived notions. That's all. Having fun and being funny is great. So is actual analysis of games, seasons, the state of the program, etc.
for a Notre Dame fan(atic) to have a favorite ND moment that never happened. I cut you slack on misspelling McDougal’s name originally. But favorite moment? Never met a fan who couldn’t get his favorite ND moment right. Wolverine?
(no message)
(no message)
Kelly’s coaching abilities:
1). Game coach - was average to bad when he started, but he has progressed and learned to the point where he makes smart clock mgmt calls and decisions on a regular basis. Most people would not have been allowed this learning curve, but there is no reason to not enjoy it now.
2). Recruiting - the best HS talent evaluator that I have ever seen. He can pick the diamonds in the rough like no other. Now on the other hand, he approaches the 5 star recruits with the same analytics approach that he uses to decide to fair catch most kicks. For the time and trouble and lower retention rate at ND where regulations are more strict, he feels that his time is better spent with the four stars in general and rough diamonds. He does land some 5 stars, but that is ND, not him. Our loss to Clemson highlights the flaw in his approach. We are good enough to get an invite on occasion with his strategy, but we lacked the skill position talent to have a real chance at a NC.
3). Program manager - excellent.
4) Assistant selector - good to excellent now (Swarbrick did force him to change, but it was Kelly who picked them). When he started, I would grade him as poor to average.
The present day Kelly is an 8/10 coach. Their is no safe choice that is better who is available and who will come and live with the restrictions at ND. Your previous NDN board can’t let go of the past which is less than BK was able to do. He does sound like a dick in real life - so what? Do you think Frank Leahy was a cool dude? I don’t care. His players like him.
Anyone who can’t enjoy a 26-4 run over the past 3 years should run their whiny ass over to NDN where the hatred for ND as a whole is white hot- worse than any Michigan board. Unlike Some boards, our uhnd board ops do not claim potentially imaginary secret inside team sources who tell them that current players on the team are mentally weak. Our board ops also tolerate diverse opinions.
We also do not feel spelling and grammatical errors are worthy of correction for the sake of virtue signaling.
....and I usually edit my posts a lot given that my nemesis spellcheck tasks me on my i pad.
Welcome.
You did forget about the part that they think the college football world is the same now as is was in the early 90s and there is simply no excuse for ND not to be scooping up 5 stars.
While I do not share your enthusiams for Kelly -- I am probably more in the half empty camp rather than half full camp while I grant he may have turned a corner -- lunacy and groupthink is pervasive at that other site. And that is because they hound, badger and bully anyone who isn't in the Kelly hater camp, all with the acquiescence and active enthusiam of the board mods there. Where else would a poster be allowed to effectively call an injured player a pussy, in direct violation of their alleged board rules, without any repercussion? And there were a few posters who were actually calling out that poster and were chastised for it because, of course, the poster in question "knew" the player wasn't really hurt, just 'mentally weak.'
(no message)
(no message)
....sounds we were classmates at ND.
I lived in St Ed's and got a degree from PLS. You?
(no message)
and it looks like he joined in 2014.
Based on him saying he has just been posting for a month, I guess I didn't notice he'd been here for five years. So I'll retract that. I still don't think he's legit. No ND fan has a "favorite ND memory" that didn't happen. And there was just something about the post that started this thread that seemed off to me.
"Their is no safe choice that...."
"We also do not feel spelling and grammatical errors are worthy of correction for the sake of virtue signaling.
....and I usually edit my posts a lot...."
oops.
signed,
your friendly grammar and spelling nazi
bwahahaha
(no message)
(no message)
And that's what is frustrating. It results in very little intelligent discussion. It's he can't take any blame or everything he does is wrong.
it has not with regards to Declan Sullivan. It was an awful accident and I sincerely hope he rests in peace and his family has recovered as much as it can. But to keep bringing it up with regards to BK lacks perspective. He often talks about the family; he says he regrets the day; the Kelly Cares Foundation and the University have helped raise over $1.2m for the Declan Sullivan Memorial Fund as of 2014, and the University fully cooperated with OSHA. BK very much regrets what happened that day and to tar the man for the rest of his life over an accident is a bridge too far for me.
Link: https://declandrummsullivanfund.org/memorialfund/
I'm not certain that warrants cooperation. If anything, it illustrates a denial of culpability. OSHA reduced the fine from $77,000 to $42,000 after ND appealed. Part of the reduced fine, was a a stipulation that Notre Dame was mandated to make a contribution to the Declan Sullivan memorial fund. It was required.
(no message)
"I don't like BK's personality -- I think he turns people off, drifts into arrogance, and has had many sideline displays that do not befit the public face of ND football -- and that's before you even consider Lizzy Seeburg and Declan Sullivan"
Seriously, when your premises are tainted with your personal animus and NDN talking points your pretension to "reasoned analysis" is just that, pretension.
"it seems Jack Swarbrick has intimated publicly that he was behind the remaking of the staff that brought in Chip Long and Mike Elko/Clark Lea"
LOL. Surely, Mr. Objective, you can provide sources for this "seeming"?
Here's how Sports Illustrated descrivbed it in an artciel by Pete Thamel in March 2017 (link below):
"Chad Klunder, the program’s associate athletic director for football operations, joined Swarbrick and Kelly for the final two-and-a-half hours of their marathon postseason meeting. He jotted down on paper what Kelly and Swarbrick discussed and began the on-the-ground process of vetting, recruiting and setting up interviews with potential coaches. A holistic interview process was stressed, much different than the shotgun assistant coach hiring practices so common in college football. Notre Dame interviewed five strength coaches, three wide receivers coaches, three offensive coordinators and two defensive coordinators. “I was working with Brian to make sure Brian was getting what he wanted and that Jack’s vision and expectations were being met,” Klunder says. 'I really served as a conduit between the two of them.'"
So they're saying Swarbrick and Kelly sat down with Klunder assisting. Notice the last sentence: "Jack's vision and expectations" were the standard.
Here's one of the interviews Swarbrick gave after the 2017 bounce-back season, from The Observer:
“I think it was important for the team, I think it was important for the University,” Swarbrick said. “The significance of the program [contributes to] so much of what we do at the University. In that sense, it’s hard to overstate its importance. We needed to demonstrate, as we believe strongly, the previous year was an aberration.”
“Now, part of proving that is taking a hard look at it and deciding what you had to change and what was wrong. [Head coach Brian] Kelly did an unbelievable job of examining every aspect of the program, and making some tough decisions about the changes that needed to be made, and executing on all those changes. It started with a very focused engagement with the students who played for him, to say ‘what can you share with me? How can we make sure this doesn’t happen again?’ He heard those messages, and he made a host of changes and I feel great about where the program is right now. Culturally it is as strong as it has been in my 11 years here, and I have every confidence that will manifest itself on the field.”
There's a delineation between what "the university" saw had to be done and what BK himself actually did. I could spend time looking for additional inside the program reporting that says Swarbrick and Fr. Jenkins, faced with intense pressure to fire Kelly after the 4-8 season, decided to re-boot with new coordinators. It has worked and saved the University a massive buyout, so kudos to them.
Link: https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/03/08/brian-kelly-notre-dame-fighting-irish-changes
was behind the remaking of the staff that brought in Chip Long and Mike Elko/Clark Lea" other than your own prejudiced interpretation which, as Mr. Objective, you're not supposed to have.
winning candidates. BK was not allowed to go through his usual hiring process.
it that Kelly convinced Swarbrick that a better process was required for the hiring process so he did not have to rely exclusively on his contacts. After having to let go 2 friends I can imagine he would be thinking that way. In fact, in this very forum in 2016 I wondered why Swarbrick could not provide Kelly with the same tools in identifying a DC that he used to do a HC search. So I suppose you might say, it SEEMS that I was behind it. You're welcome.
"Bald assertions" are his "pet peeve." So I'm sure he can offer sources.
(no message)
It took him the better part of 8 years to get it right, and he still has some pieces of the puzzle that are missing, but we're in a much more solid position than that of any of the post-Holtz era. Brian Kelly now understands what it takes to be successful at Notre Dame, which was a much more difficult task than blazing through a feeble Big East back when he was at Cincinnati.
The depth chart looks pretty darn good, and he has a good system in place. We're not stuck with two and three star talent that almost nobody else in the FBS really wanted (look at Tyrone's 2004 class as a prime example). While we don't have the boatloads of 5 star talent, continued consistently good seasons will get you more of them.
Now, that being said, he should have had the program at this level back in 2015. His stubborn refusal to jettison the cancers on the coaching staff (Longo, Van Gorder, Booker) slowed the development, and got him in some serious hot water in 2016.
And there is plenty of room for both under his tenure.
Overall, he’s been a net positive over what he got when he started. He has markedly improved the program, facilities, recruiting and on field product from what he inherited. He will leave the program in good, and in much, much better shape that he got it. He has not been able to return the program to elite status though, and shouldn’t be compared to coaches who had such teams and won natties. He is also a marginal game day coach who constantly loses the big games. Glass half full for me.
(no message)
But I still struggle with the inexplicable losses to the likes of Tulsa, USF, NC State, etc.
On the other hand, the program is in a far better state than it was when he arrived. There's been upgrades in virtually every aspect, including the field, Jumbotron, facilities, training table, S&C, and, especially, TALENT level.
Given that this is his tenth year, we may have BK for another 2-3 years - possibly a few more. For those who'd like Kelly gone now, or for those who are more reasoned and can wait for him to leave........whho's next? Fleck, Campbell, Rhule,?
It absolutely cannot be Lea, Long, or anybody else without HC experience,
(no message)
situation was great?
Why does it have to be all or nothing? He has done some things well, other things not. My fear right now is a couple years after Swarbrick got him to bring in fresh offensive and defensive coordinators, some of the same things that caused the problems that led to the 4-8 in 2016 may be resurfacing. That would be especially bad if Long and/or Lea move on.
(no message)
(no message)
(no message)
(no message)
it.
(no message)
...Brian Van Gorder, the single handed reason why we lost at least 5 of those games in 2016, and the reason why we didn't make the playoffs in 2015, not to mention, wasting a once in a lifetime talent the likes of Jaylon Smith.
(no message)
(no message)